KLON Centaur Gold

Bidley

A horse would definitely give you more stage presence.

monquixote

Joe Perry is a fan 

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgru1xyKMr1qcukbo.jpg

stonevibe

Shame the price of these has got people knocking the Klon.

I really like mine and the way it is so simple and effective. Of course if it cost £50 then it would be seen as though 'there was a catch' or some other nonsense.

Hate the price, not the pedal.

Over a grand for a drive is stupid and we all know it.

ThePrettyDamned

stonevibe;135461" said:

Shame the price of these has got people knocking the Klon.

I really like mine and the way it is so simple and effective. Of course if it cost £50 then it would be seen as though 'there was a catch' or some other nonsense.

Hate the price, not the pedal.

Over a grand for a drive is stupid and we all know it.

Yeah, that's true. It's not the sort of pedal I like (I can get clean boost from a... Er... Clean boost, the visual sound buffer is as good as they get and I don't have use for the drive sound). But it is clearly something a lot of folks want, and I could easily find a lot of uses for it, even if it wouldn't usurp my usual bass boosted drive pedal.

But the hype pushed what should have been a good boutique product into a bit of a joke really. Also, if the guy was good enough to come up with a great, original drive pedal, wouldn't it have been nice if he'd gotten into analogue chorus and delay, phaser, distortion and (my personal fave) the envelope filter? I wish a boutique guy would do a qtron but with a switch for low and high output pickups to make the gain control more usable for high output humbuckers.

A note on boutique guys: one in America has recently done the boss hm2, which is *the* Swedish death metal sound. He's used better components and modded it a little to make the gain range more usable, but still have that 'everything maxed' sound.

To me, that's a cool circuit to choose to release. It's discontinued, has niche appeal and, if the seller is to be believed, the mods make it more usable for other sounds. He was shot down for cloning crap though, at an unfair price (a couple of hundred dollars I think).

He said something about being bored of making overdrives and fuzz pedals, and wanted to do something different. This pedal has high parts count, and needed r+d but people still thought it was hideously expensive, yet they'd happily chat about the 600 dollar dumbloid all day.

So boutique (or 'independent, as I'm going to start saying) builders do need to charge more to cover labour and high quality jacks and pots, but the funny thing is, they're able to charge more for simple, low gain circuits than high gain, high labour and high parts count circuits.

Odd, right?

juansolo

Ain' t that the truth. I don't sell many pedals (I only do it occasionally to cover the cost of pedals for me and run at a constant deficit). But I can get much more for a Klone (I circuit I've done enough times now to be able to do blindfold) than I can an analog delay/chorus/whatever. The amount of actual work and indeed the cost of the raw materials being more for, well anything that isn't an OD. Only fuzzes are simpler. So I use the Klones to make up for the money I don't make on anything else.

ChrisMusic

Interesting post @ThePrettyDamned, having come back to playing guitar again I am getting to grips with all the "boutique" arguments, amongst other things.  This whole thread highlights a lot of the negative side, but not meaning that in a bad way.  Your remarks above do show the absolute hypocrisy surrounding the whole pedal game, thanks for highlighting that instance.

IMO:

"Boutique" is just one of those vacuous marketing speak words to signify hype and high pricing, whether justifiable or not.

"Independent" carries a quiet air of authority and credibility to me.

ThePrettyDamned

@chrismusic, yeah I've nothing against independent builders of anything, but I wish the support was for innovation and progression, and appealing to niche markets (which is what, after all, a hand made product should be about), rather than a minor tweak to an existing design that makes very little difference, then slamming a much bigger price tag than is truly necessary on top.

frankus

I like the word boutique - it's used for wines and clothes... it means small premises, limited runs or products based on the proprietor's tastes... and that nails the Klon, there are threads describing the efforts the owner goes to to ensure quality - comparing pcbs, sourcing unique enclosures... that kind of jazz...

I can't afford a Klon, I'd have no expectation of ever owning one, I do have a few Analogman, Fulltone, Tanabe and Cochrane pedals... I love the sounds - other stuff gets really close, and add a drummer there's not much in it at all - but it's nice to have stuff that has been built by people who play for people who play... some stuff like the Rothwell Lovesqueeze, VoodooLabs Chorus, Visual Sound H2O and Route66 is top flight electrics mass-produced - it's the same quality and lovely to have, it costs less but the makers have just as much respect and love.. sometimes more (in the case of R.G. Keen joining Visual Sound)

I think boutique means something more, and it's becomed lessened in much the same way "as seen on TV" does - used to be a time there were stringent checks on products to appear on the 1 channel permitted to advertise .. but now there's thousands of channels and much less checking..

I think we should elevate Boutique back up to it's original status and be less trusting of charlatans.

ChrisMusic

frankus said:  (edited down only for brevity)

... I think we should elevate Boutique back up to it's original status and be less trusting of charlatans. 

Eloquently reasoned argument @frankus, I fully agree with the sentiment, "Boutique" has been subverted, it is a word to describe desirable characteristics for the discerning who want that bit more, restoration of it's status would be beneficial all round.

I believe that we need to also look at our role as consumers, as without that we would not be having this discussion.  We are the driving force behind this, market forces and all that.

I have to say that I despair at the attitudes and gullibility of todays muso.  I am not sure what's required to change that, or whether it is signifies attitudes which are society wide, which is probably the case.  If that is true then we are our own worst enemies and deserving of the consequences.

On a more positive note:

"I think we should elevate Boutique back up to it's original status and be less trusting of charlatans." - frankus.

Well said.  

Dave_Mc

spacecadet said:

Only ever worth at best the $269 Bill was originally charging.

+1. The one I tried was a good pedal. When I tried it they were still making them and I think the price was £300 for a new one. I thought that was pushing it, let alone the prices now (based on how good it sounded, you understand, I'm aware the fancy case and proprietary parts etc. cost money). As @ThePrettyDamned said, what was a good, actually unique (as far as ODs can be unique) product is now kind of a joke mainly due to hype (and to be fair, far as I'm aware the manufacturer has done little to quell that hype). I also agree with what @frankus is saying about chancers using the boutique label to charge more for questionable quality and/or originality.

darcym said:

how many times - don't buy it then. The price is there because people will pay it, don't buy it, don't post links linking to it to mock it, just let it go.

Good job we have you around to police the internet. I mean if we don't discuss stuff, what's the point in the forum?

allicio

frankus;135592" said:

I like the word boutique - it's used for wines and clothes... it means sm koall premises, limited runs or products based on the proprietor's tastes... and that nails the Klon, there are threads describing the efforts the owner goes to to ensure quality - comparing pcbs, sourcing unique enclosures... that kind of jazz...



I can't afford a Klon, I'd have no expectation of ever owning one, I do have a few Analogman, Fulltone, Tanabe and Cochrane pedals... I love the sounds - other stuff gets really close, and add a drummer there's not much in it at all - but it's nice to have stuff that has been built by people who play for people who play... some stuff like the Rothwell Lovesqueeze, VoodooLabs Chorus, Visual Sound H2O and Route66 is top flight electrics mass-produced - it's the same quality and lovely to have, it costs less but the makers have just as much respect and love.. sometimes more (in the case of R.G. Keen joining Visual Sound)



I think boutique means something more, and it's becomed lessened in much the same way "as seen on TV" does - used to be a time there were stringent checks on products to appear on the 1 channel permitted to advertise .. but now there's thousands of channels and much less checking..



I think we should elevate Boutique back up to it's original status and be less trusting of charlatans.

Quite simply the best post ive read on this forum.

eventhelosers

juansolo said:

Or a load of beer and hookers.

Can you just clarify please? Are you talking a load of beer and just a couple of hookers or a load of beer and a load of hookers too?

juansolo

Depends on whether you want quality beer or a better class of escort I suppose.

Axe_meister

The price is a bit silly given you can get a Kline Clone kit for about £40.
Alas we live in a time where there are fewer people who tinker with electronics these days. All the components in an average OD or fuzz can be had for peanuts and really are simple. Just look at and electronics magazine for really complex home build projects.
Yes to commercialize a product does cost a lot more so an independent chagrin £120 is about justifiable but any more no.

eventhelosers

juansolo;135983" said:

Depends on whether you want quality beer or a better class of escort I suppose.

When put that way, I'd have a four pack of asda smart price lager at 38p a can. Then I could afford a years supply of really skanky hos. Oh yeah, best of both worlds!

juansolo

Axe_meister said:

Yes to commercialize a product does cost a lot more so an independent chagrin £120 is about justifiable but any more no.

Then again once commercialised you can make them vastly cheaper (economies of scale), than someone buying in the bits to make one or two pedals at a time. Also there is a hugely different amount of labour involved in a one off vs commercial. Well if whomever is building the one off gives a shit of couse

The Soul Food is a perfect example. They're selling for about £15 more than the cost of a Klone in parts alone. Within that margin they're covering the parts, R&D, premises, staff, etc. Also there'll be a retail mark up on it too. It'd be impossible for a small outfit to compete with the unit price of it and survive.

ICBM

Here's a philosophical question…

Which is more overpriced, this original gold Klon or an original 60s Tonebender at the same price? (Assuming for the sake of comparison that the going rate for both is the same. Tonebenders can actually go for more…)

And why?

You may refer to circuit complexity, component count, versatility, rarity, original cost, or any other relevant factor. Please answer in 1000 words or less.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM;136698" said:

Here's a philosophical question…

Which is more overpriced, this original gold Klon or an original 60s Tonebender at the same price? (Assuming for the sake of comparison that the going rate for both is the same. Tonebenders can actually go for more…)

And why?

You may refer to circuit complexity, component count, versatility, rarity, original cost, or any other relevant factor. Please answer in 1000 words or less.

Neither, because you're unlikely to use either as more available clones are available for less. They're collectors items, so they're both rip offs and both worth every penny.

But before the klon became a collectors item, it was a bigger rip off because it was being purchased to use - therefore, 1000 pounds of components suggested. Now, it's a grand of history.

Dave_Mc

+1

ChrisMusic

Good perspective TPD