AxeFX & Kemper - thinking the unthinkable and selling my soul to the devil

rossyamaha

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Really wrestling my inner demons on this as I've always been a devout tube fan boy!

So have I. While I'm not using the Helix to it's full extent by any means and my "analog" pedalboard isn't going anywhere just yet, the possibilities that Helix/ Kemper/ Axe open up are hard to ignore. 

hywelg

fretmeister said:

The original POD.- must be getting on for 10 years old now?

And the rest. 1998. XT in 2002. Mine still going....

mixolyd

I've never played through a kemper but have used this online service which re-amps your dry signal through a kemper.  They have a free demo amp, if you pay you can choose from a bunch of amps.  Give it a go and see for yourself how you like the sounds.

https://ampincloud.com/

To this day the only emulation I've heard that can give me that spine-tingling feeling is the Kemper.  Axe- fx and Helix sound good but they don't give that impression that an actual physical amp is making the sound.

John_A

That's pretty amazing, their plexi profile sounds fantastic!

Vaiai

Ok, I went FX8 and still use an amp (Victory V30 for portability). I had a Kemper, never gigged it - main reason was not knowing how to set up for FoH without actually going somewhere and doing it thru a full PA. How to hear it on stage - i.e you either go IEM or you have monitoring on stage so you still need to take a cab with you. Also ideally you want FRFR which is again more cost.
Add the separate pedalboard for either Kemper or Axe and it starts to add up.

I love my V30 so I went FX8 as a compromise. My next choice would have been Helix - both that and AX8 have modelling, huge amount of options and are floor based units- so no extra expense on foot controllers.Helix also has a built in expression/volume pedal which is great.

Helix is definitely worth considering - it's certainly doing the job for a few of my mates and sounds great live.

mr-mac

Got to say, and I was about to give up on modelling/digital the digitech GSP1101 sounds phenomenal direct to PA. C63 firmware handles IR files.   And unlike elevenrack (which I think is a close price s/h) it can do 4 cable method with no cab modelling back to guitar power amp but still have cab modelled output from xlr at same time.

considering the GSP is in hd500 territory pricewise s/h and imho its like a diff continent performance wise (even on some std non Ir presets) then I think if you like idea but don't have high end budget the gap is giving very very close to axe fx performance for low end modelling price.

John_P

It doesn't have to be either / or.    I still have plenty of old amps in the house that I use for some bands and use an old school amp set up or ax8 or amplifire when it suits the gig or band. 

Jonathanthomas83

Guys, be honest what are the cleans like on these things?

Are they punchy and crisp and are they clean, I mean crystal!?

Sporky

Certainly on the Helix they are as you want them. Massive flexibility.

sweepy

The Axe Fx does Clean with real warmth and authority as did the Helix tbh

mixolyd

John_A said:

That's pretty amazing, their plexi profile sounds fantastic!

Yep I used their vintage AC30 profile to reamp a track, A/B-ing it against pedals and soft sims and the result was similarly spectacular. 

EDIT: though to be clear, my playing wasn't as good!

guitartango

Interesting comments from this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkf4kXVkZek

Jonathanthomas83

Thanks guys, that's good to know. There's a million and one demo's featuring high gain sounds, so I know they're good.

It's AxeFX v Helix for me, I want something that will be groundbreaking and allow me to find new sounds. As much as I love the idea and interface of the Kemper, I feel like I need more than an amp profiler. I also don't want to have to buy profiles of amps with pedals in front of them. The Helix and Axe both have the ability to add pedals, and I like that. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I watched a video today about Misha Mansour and how he said he wanted something more than what amps were giving him and that's something I've always found. I always wanted a more pristine version of what I was getting with amps. The only amp I've never found that with is my current one. However, the high gain sounds need to be had by adding pedals, and sometimes that's easier said than done and I don't think I'm where I want to be as far as high gain is concerned - clean is superb though. Then there's the inconsistency between venues and cabinets.

So I'm thinking that the Helix and Axe would allow me to find something more and experiment. Have to be honest, I've not found a demo of the Helix that's made me go "that's the one" yet, and the AxeFX community seems great but I've read some really nasty stories over the last few days. The Kemper lot seem like a really solid bunch of guys.

So I'm far from decided...but I am leaning toward the AxeFX, from what I've heard so far - whilst staring longingly at my current pedals and broken amp, thinking "what the actual f*ck am I doing!?"

Sporky

Whereabouts are you? There may be owners near enough by that you could have a play in the company of someone who knows the unit.

The Axe and Helix are both flexible.

The Helix is definitely bonkers-flexible. Eight tremolos in four parallel paths? OK. Put a patch cable in an FX loop to feed signal back through the chain? Yup. Two wahs in opposite directions? Oh yes - and that's a good sound. And all really easy to build.

Jonathanthomas83

@Sporky I'm in South Wales. Thankfully there's a Helix dealer in Cardiff so I'm going to try one in the next few days. Only trouble is, I'll get the salesman approach and they're pushy bastards who are highly unlikely to know anything about its potential or how to work it.

The AxeFX is a little more tricky!

Have you got a Helix? Those routing things sound bonkers! I guess the possibilities are endless! 

Sporky

I do have a Helix. I've had a play through an AxeFX and it made lovely silly noises, but didn't really fiddle with it.

Lots of good basic sounds in the Helix, but it's the sculpting that floats my boat. Particularly with @Drew_TNBD 's thing about running delay and reverb into dirt. Lovely interactive sounds.

Jonathanthomas83

It's the sculpting thing that I know I'm going to love too! :-)

That guy in the video above is proper annoyed!

Sporky

I've tried watching that three times now, but frankly he's a boring old twit. If I wanted to see a boring old twit spouting off on the inferweb I'd read my own posts.

Drew_TNBD

IMHO, a Kemper is not close enough to the amp it profiles to replace the amp it profiles. It can get some good sounds, yes. But the low-end is *always* wrong - at least based on the 5 or 6 amps I profiled with it in professional environments with professional recording gear. The low-end just isn't right.

The Axe FX is great, but complex and difficult to use on the fly.

The Helix is the best bang for buck in my opinion.

Roland

As a long term AxeFX user I feel I ought to chip in here.

Jonathanthomas83 said:

 So the question is, where do I start? Do I go Kemper or AxeFX? There's a huge price difference. Anyone local have one I can try out? .... So I've got a lot to think about, can anybody who has experience with these things chime in and lend some advice? 

There is no single answer to the question. It's easy to get draw into discussions about the quality of amp/speaker emulation. My take is that it depends totally on what sort of music you play, what sounds you want, and whether you personally care about the difference in the situation you normally play in (bedroom, studio, pub, etc). 

Things to think about include: 
- Portability. AX8 and Helix win over anything which needs a rack.
- How comfortable you are configuring software.
- Workflow in use, thank you @Drew_TNBD for reminding us of this point.

Things NOT to think about:
- Depreciation. It's electronics. If it has resale value, other than immediate flip, then consider yourself lucky (in the same way as your television)
- Supplier support. Real support is going to come from the user community.

I bought my first AxeFX for its effects, and then discovered that the amp sounds were quite useable. If I was making a decision now then lack of good effects would rule the Kemper out, and I wouldn't go for rack mounted equipment because it's one more thing to carry. My decision would be between the Helix and the AX8