Humbuckers and clean tones

Jonathanthomas83

This is really basic and I feel kind of noobish by bringing it up. I've got a pair of Barekunckle cold sweats in my PRS and they sound incredible, tight and huge at high gain and overdriven. But the clean tones are really hard to get clean, there's a gritty-ness to them. I don't just get this on my PRS, but I get it with the Burstbuckers on my 2013 Les Paul too. 

I have a very clinical setup, in that a reactive load box and cabinet IR give me a very true representation of what my amp is kicking out (Laney Lionheart L20h). So a real cabinet would normally hide artifacts like this, as it pumps out so much power, but the load box and IR are very great reproductions of the genuine tone being put out, so I'm absolutely sure that what I'm hearing is spot on. It's refreshing to know what I'm dealing with, but it causes hassle in that I'm getting grit now where I didn't notice it before. 

So, before looking at lower output pickups, is there a way (other than lowering the volume on the guitar) that I can clean these bad boys up on the fly during the middle of a song (quickly) - ie, from heavy chorus to clean verse. I have a coil tap, but it's not ideal as it's on a pull pot. Plus, I'd rather stay in humbucker mode. 

How are you guys dealing with this? 

many thanks

victorludorum

Maybe use a boost as part of your 'normal' tone, which you can then cut out for the parts that you want to be very clean. A gain cut without having to faff around with your volume knob.

grungebob

The other way would be to have an eq pedal to either cut the volume evenly across the range or to cut specific frequencies, this way makes it a easy tap of the foot change. 

jellyroll

If you want to drive across a field don't buy a Ferrari.....

sweepy

Back the volume off to @ 7 ?, that usually cleans up most humbuckers. Have you kept the treble bleed cap from the original installation ?

guitars4you

What is the best option on a pick-up is more awkward compared to pedals, maybe amps and guitars - In that to try other pick up options is an hour or two of work, so in reality it does not happen to easily - Go lower output and alnico and you might not like the gain levels after

The BK Cold Sweat are ceramic magnets I believe, so as an overview they work better with gain than the alnico magnets on your Burstbuckers - Not sure what PRS you have, so how this stacks up on scale length etc to your LP and maybe this info is required to evaluate further - I'm a PRS fan, sold lots, owned a few, but many models do sound better with gain and less earthy or organic than a Les Paul - I don't like the word sterile, but those who use it I know where they are coming from

Adjusting pick -up height is worth looking at, and so is rolling off the volume pot as required - some PRS models have a treble bleed capacitor, to retain highs and I think this works better on gain levels, so on clean amp settings it stops it been so 'chilled out' and mellow

Just shows that one guitar doesn't do it all, hence why so many of us have 2 or more guitars - You'll probably find the PRS nails the hi-gain better than the LP with Burstbuckers

Let us know what PRS you have and then add appropriate info

Rowby1

You've really discounted the best solution in your post. Use the volume control on your guitar. I have a burstbucker LP and the best cleans are def with the volume backed off. 

Jonathanthomas83

It's a 2016 PRS Custom 24. I don't know about the original treble bleed cap, how do I find out?

Yeah, I have a few guitars and know some have strengths in different styles of music. Issue I have is that I've written a few songs with high gain chorus and really clean crisp verse rhythms. So I'm struggling really. If we had two guitarists, it would be ideal. 

I just don't get the high gain tone I need from my strat, or I'd happily use that for everything as it's simply gorgeous for the clean tone I need.

@Rowby1, not discounted it at all mate. It's a matter of convenience really...as stated above, the tonal changes are pretty severe and really quick, during each song, so having to stomp on a pedal and rapidly change pickup and turn volume up isn't going to happen! haha :-)

crunchman

The treble bleed cap should just be a capacitor soldered between the lugs of the volume control. You should be able to check quite easily by taking the control cavity cover off and having a look.

I always prefer the sound of lower output pickups.  You can always add more gain to them.  Unless you want really tight high gain metal low end then I'd get some more vintage spec pickups.

Bridgehouse

I always find with clean tones on humbuckers that you need a combination of pickup height and judicious volume control usage to get the right 'taste' for what you want...

Jonathanthomas83

It's kind of reassuring to know that, in the very least, I'm not the only one having to deal with this. 

In one way, the Les Paul is better equipped to deal with changing from high gain to clean. It has a dedicated volume and tone per pickup so a simple flick of the selector switch from bridge to neck would do it. But ideally, I'd really want to use the PRS for these songs, just sounds bigger (brutal for high gain, in fact - love it) and is nicer to play. 

I may have to play about with some sort of EQ pedal maybe. 

Thanks for the advice fellas!

hubobulous

The Suhr blower switch is designed exactly for this and so whilst I'm not suggesting that you buy a new guitar, the concept might be one that you can play with? I sometimes set my HSH up on position 4 with the volume backed off for rhythm and then hit the blower for solos. Works a treat.

guitars4you

As an overview you won't get the same fat warm clean tone from a CU24 as you will with the LP - scale length, trem, thinner body and neck pick up placement all have an impact on that clean tone - I don't like putting guitars in categories of this is a jazz guitar or rock guitar etc as these barriers, or any barriers, are there to be exploited but CU24's work better with gain and probably better than your LP, but the clean settings on them is not as 'organic' as an LP - Change pick-ups and you'll take away something from your overdriven setting

Chances are there will be a treble bleed on the volume pot - try taking that of and see if you prefer it, but again it will have an impact on your gain settings when you roll off the vol pot a touch

As a matter of interest when you say you want a clean tone, are you basing this on cleaning up an overdriven amp setting, or just a pure clean tone with no gain on the amp

Compared to your LP clean tone I don't think you'll find the CU24 will offer the same clean tone - different voice -

Winny_Pooh

This is why players use a two amp setup. The second amp has dedicated eq, gain & speakers that is best for it's role. Or a channel switching amp with independent EQ

Jonathanthomas83

hubobulous said:

The Suhr blower switch is designed exactly for this and so whilst I'm not suggesting that you buy a new guitar, the concept might be one that you can play with? I sometimes set my HSH up on position 4 with the volume backed off for rhythm and then hit the blower for solos. Works a treat.

That looks perfect! Trying to think of a way to get this on the PRS now...that old Fender switch on the top of a control knob would be perfect for that kind of thing.

Jonathanthomas83

guitars4you said:

As an overview you won't get the same fat warm clean tone from a CU24 as you will with the LP - scale length, trem, thinner body and neck pick up placement all have an impact on that clean tone - I don't like putting guitars in categories of this is a jazz guitar or rock guitar etc as these barriers, or any barriers, are there to be exploited but CU24's work better with gain and probably better than your LP, but the clean settings on them is not as 'organic' as an LP - Change pick-ups and you'll take away something from your overdriven setting

Chances are there will be a treble bleed on the volume pot - try taking that of and see if you prefer it, but again it will have an impact on your gain settings when you roll off the vol pot a touch

As a matter of interest when you say you want a clean tone, are you basing this on cleaning up an overdriven amp setting, or just a pure clean tone with no gain on the amp

Compared to your LP clean tone I don't think you'll find the CU24 will offer the same clean tone - different voice -

Think you may have misread my initial post (or more likely...my initial post was badly worded!)...but the PRS is no worse than my Les Paul for clean tones. I get the same grit on clean with the Les Paul and any humbucker. Granted, the grit is a little less on the Les Paul due to the lower output, but it's still there. The only clean I get is with single coils. 

I'm basing this on a dead clean channel, no gain, grit or overdrive.

Jonathanthomas83

Winny_Pooh said:

This is why players use a two amp setup. The second amp has dedicated eq, gain & speakers that is best for it's role. Or a channel switching amp with independent EQ

Yes, that would be ideal. You're right. :-(

hubobulous

I might be wrong, but memory seems to suggest that Gibson put this on some recent Les Pauls as a push pull. The Suhr Blower is a push/push, but you should be able to find something similar out there.

Not suggesting for a second that Suhr invented this idea, (I think Tom Anderson was there before at the very least), but Suhr is my only experience of the functionality.

Haych

In my old setup I used a compressor to kill gain and bring things down to a cleaner sound - I used a Joyo DynaComp and had pretty good results.

Now though I've flipped everything on it's head and I concentrate on getting a good clean tone from the amp and build on that with pedals for getting my OD tones.  I like it much better and I'm getting some really good clean sounds with 'buckers, admittedly my pups aren't as hot as cold sweats though.

Jonathanthomas83

Haych said:

In my old setup I used a compressor to kill gain and bring things down to a cleaner sound - I used a Joyo DynaComp and had pretty good results.

Now though I've flipped everything on it's head and I concentrate on getting a good clean tone from the amp and build on that with pedals for getting my OD tones.  I like it much better and I'm getting some really good clean sounds with 'buckers, admittedly my pups aren't as hot as cold sweats though.

This is the only way I can see it working. If I get the clean sound I like with a mix of guitar volume drop and amp EQ, then use pedals to achieve the rest. 

Only thing I hate is that when I set the amp for the PRS and Les Paul, I then need to re-EQ for the Strat and Tele. 

Makes me think that an Axe FX would help greatly...but that's extreme to say the least. Just trying to justify recent evil thoughts of throwing everything in the bin and starting again! haha.

hubobulous

Just buy a cheap EQ pedal for switching between the two sets of guitars.