Les Paul Pick Ups...Edumacate Me.

Bellycaster

I want to add a Les Paul to my collection soon and have been studying them (Models, Prices, Specs etc). I found a shootout vid comparing stock pick ups.



I know this is only one vid/one tone on the subject, but from this I like the 57 Classics the best and the Burstbuckers the least(truly horrific on this demo). The 498T/490R are a very close second and the others decent too.

Newbie Question! Are all these considered PAF Pick Ups, I know PAF means "Patent Applied For", but what constitutes a real PAF pick up. Which Guitar tones are famous for PAF? What pick ups etc would produce the Jimmy Page tone or Kossoff Tone?

The pick up thing is an enigma to me. Maybe it's more the whole Guitar and player combined rather than just the pick ups?

This question has probably been asked 100000000000 times, sorry, but give me your knowledge please.

jellybelly

Burstbuckers and 57s are based on slightly different styles of PAF (I'll try and explain in a sec). Having just gone through the real-life version of that shootout, here are my thoughts...

Burstbucker Pros - These are PAFs with uneven windings (give more 'bite', a bit raw-er) with AlNiCo V magnets. The neck was great with 300k pots, had a sort of clarity that was fantastic with a bit of light OD. The bridge was pretty weak and thin sounding, not my thing. Output was fairly low, which works for neck but the bridge perhaps needed more winds...

498t - I thought I'd try the bridge unit from this set. Was pretty high output, full-sounding but lacking in definition and wasn't very dynamic. Great rock pickup, I'd say. (as an aside - have tried the 490r in shops - is similar to a 57 but perhaps a tad hotter and less dynamic, though that could have been a number of factors)

Burstbucker 1 & 2 - These are the 'posh' Gibson ones, PAF replicas with AlNiCo II magnets and uneven windings. There are three models - 1, 2 and 3. 1 is under-wound, 2 is standard, 3 is overwound. The ones I had were very bright and had good definition but I felt they were a bit weedy and the bridge unit was pretty harsh. I think a 2 & 3 combo would work better in retrospect.

Classic '57 & 57+ - Best of the bunch, PAFs with EVEN windings (smoother, darker sound) and AlNiCo II magnets. Much more to my liking but ultimately very similar to my set of Bare Knuckle Stormy Mondays that have been in my Yamaha semi forever so they've currently for sale. They had a good amount of balls, defined bass, good thick output from the 'plus' bridge pickup. Not particularly defined but then if that was what I was after I wouldn't be playing a mahogany guitar with humbuckers. Think they come standard on the LP Traditional and practically every Gibson ES guitar.

ANYWAY, PAFs with uneven windings is the Led Zeppelin sort of sound, IMO. Depending on how bite-y your amp is will depend on which pickups will get you there. Although Jimmy Page apparently used telecasters a lot in the studio...

Bellycaster

I'd give you a Wow and a Wisdom if I could @jellybelly ;

Great explanation, it seems I like even windings(from that vid anyway). I see we agree on the 57's. Those Burstbuckers in that vid sound awful, they seem to have extraneous noise. The Burstbucker Pros may not have that maybe.

I'm looking at the 2017 LP Classic range, the "T" versions, which come with 57's rather than "HP" ones which are not my cup of tea at all.

I noticed the Classics have a 60's slimmer profile neck and wondered just how much slimmer they were? It'd be some time before I could get down to a shop to try one.

TTBZ

People on forums seem to slag off the 498t but I really like the one in my SG, apart from the axesrus pickup I've replaced it with, it's the best pickup I've had in it. Thick gainy rock tone, just a bit nasal.

jellybelly

I always found Gibson's 'slim' profile to be very slim, some people love it though. My LP is a lowly Studio with the thicker 50s profile.

If I were looking for a premium LP with 57 pickups, I'd be going for a good deal on a 2016 Traditional. Some have been going on classifieds here for around £1k and I sure shops will be looking to get rid in the new year.

Bellycaster

Hard to compare @jellybelly without me trying one.

I'm hoping it's not as slim as a Modern C on the Fender Americans(Good on Fenders, maybe not so much on LP's)

thermionic

Bellycaster said:

 Those Burstbuckers in that vid sound awful, they seem to have extraneous noise. The Burstbucker Pros may not have that maybe.

If you don't have the same number of windings on both coils, then not all the hum will be cancelled. As I understand it, Burstbuckers have the coils wound with an unequal number of turns, so the coil with the higher number of turns will pick up some hum that the other coil won't completely cancel out. I'd expect then to be noisier than Classic 57s.

Bellycaster

thermionic said:

Bellycaster said:

 Those Burstbuckers in that vid sound awful, they seem to have extraneous noise. The Burstbucker Pros may not have that maybe.

If you don't have the same number of windings on both coils, then not all the hum will be cancelled. As I understand it, Burstbuckers have the coils wound with an unequal number of turns, so the coil with the higher number of turns will pick up some hum that the other coil won't completely cancel out. I'd expect then to be noisier than Classic 57s.

Cheers @thermionic it's really all new knowledge to me regarding windings and all that, I didn't know they wound them unevenly until tonight, but it's good to learn.

jellybelly

Bellycaster said:

thermionic said:

Bellycaster said:

 Those Burstbuckers in that vid sound awful, they seem to have extraneous noise. The Burstbucker Pros may not have that maybe.

If you don't have the same number of windings on both coils, then not all the hum will be cancelled. As I understand it, Burstbuckers have the coils wound with an unequal number of turns, so the coil with the higher number of turns will pick up some hum that the other coil won't completely cancel out. I'd expect then to be noisier than Classic 57s.

Cheers @thermionic it's really all new knowledge to me regarding windings and all that, I didn't know they wound them unevenly until tonight, but it's good to learn.

It's something I've been through recently, having been a fender player for the majority of my playing life. I think Gibson never meant to make different kinds of pickups, it was all by accident, you can just tell Page's were one way, Peter Green's another. Although Seymour Duncan might have been doing things like that on purpose back in the 60s, I'm not sure!

TimmyO

57 Classics are my go-to.

They are awesome in my R7, we're awesome in my semi, and in a blind test on the LesPaulForum back in the day they got voted favourite, ahead of all of the booteek mojo Ines of the day

rlw

Whereas while I like the 57s, I find them a bit muddy in my Studio and find the BB Pros in my Standard are much clearer. 

Chalky

57 classics tend to be sneered at these days but they were in all the top Gibsons for 15 years or more. I prefer Burstbuckers because I like their clean/low gain sounds better.

guitarfishbay

To me 57 classics are what I think when I think of Gibson tone. I don't care if they're not the best on paper, in use they sound right to me. I've currently got a 500T in my bridge position just for fun, otherwise I also like the BB3 for a bright bridge pickup.

RandallFlagg

In my limited experience I have found the current Gibson Custombuckers as used in current historic reissues to be the best Gibson humbucker I have used, although some of this may be down to the 50s style wiring and pots as well.

This is compared to 498/490, Burstbuckers and 57 Classics that I have had in other Gibson guitars

jellybelly

TimmyO said:

57 Classics are my go-to.

They are awesome in my R7, we're awesome in my semi, and in a blind test on the LesPaulForum back in the day they got voted favourite, ahead of all of the booteek mojo Ines of the day

I'd be interested to see/hear that test! I've just received some Bare Knuckle Mules that are phenomenal - Burstbuckers really aren't even close. Like I said before though, the 57s hold up against the Stormy Mondays to an extent. 

Did i mention I was selling soem 57/57+ in the classifieds??

johnhe

I love the Classic '57 bridge pickup. I've had mine in several guitars and it has sounded fabulous in every one. I like it better than any of the other BB1,2, Pro pickups I've owned.

However, I am not in love with the Classic '57 neck pickup. I have the pole pieces raised quite high on mine, and have fitted CTS 500k pots, but the Classic '57 still sounds a bit indistinct and woolly in the neck to my ears.

i think that it is really easy to disappear down rabbit holes on this subject, and get all cork sniffery. Lots of people are totally dismissive of certain pickups (mainly Gibson!), and yet lots of my musical heroes, like Warren Haynes, sound absolutely fabulous when using them.

Another issue is that, while I totally accept that underwound and unpotted is the best way to get a really vintage sounding pickup, I've found that in the real world, I honestly probably prefer a bit more welly and wax potting. It may be slightly less magical sounding, but I think it's probably much easier to use onstage (IMO obviously).

olafgarten

johnhe said:

I love the Classic '57 bridge pickup. I've had mine in several guitars and it has sounded fabulous in every one. I like it better than any of the other BB1,2, Pro pickups I've owned.

However, I am not in love with the Classic '57 neck pickup. I have the pole pieces raised quite high on mine, and have fitted CTS 500k pots, but the Classic '57 still sounds a bit indistinct and woolly in the neck to my ears.

i think that it is really easy to disappear down rabbit holes on this subject, and get all cork sniffery. Lots of people are totally dismissive of certain pickups (mainly Gibson!), and yet lots of my musical heroes, like Warren Haynes, sound absolutely fabulous when using them.

Another issue is that, while I totally accept that underwound and unpotted is the best way to get a really vintage sounding pickup, I've found that in the real world, I honestly probably prefer a bit more welly and wax potting. It may be slightly less magical sounding, but I think it's probably much easier to use onstage (IMO obviously).

It's strange you find the Neck wooly, I think it sounds better than a Burstbucker in the neck.