New Fender Pro Jazzmaster/Jaguar/Stratocaster/Telecaster

Moe_Zambeek · December 2016

This thread is a great example of why guitar companies can do no right on guitar forums.

I think these look good, they address some of the common complaints with modern Fenders, are USA made and not *too* much more expensive than stds, with a range of decent / interesting colours, yet still they're 'wrong' before anyone has ever played one

impmann · December 2016

A proper modern JM would have...

22frets
9in rad
A push fit arm with a collar
A bridge solution similar to the Staytrem or Mastery - so far Fender have totally got that wrong
Slightly hotter bridge pickup
Switch in the original place
Truss Rod adjustment (biflex) at the headstock
Locking machine heads
Low friction nut

Fender just don't seem to understand what JM players like about the design.

Also, tall frets send alarm bells ringing... I've had problems with some players who struggle with intonation issues with tall frets. It's like scalloping without the woodwork on some guitars. I know it's a technique thing but why alienate some players?

The switch - if you look at a lot of classic Jazzmaster players you'll find they struggled with knocking the rythmn switch, leading to some taking the circuit out completely or some gaffa taping the switch up. So putting the selector switch there is bloody stupid - because of the way a JM hangs, it's not convenient like a Les Paul.

Screw EE in trem arms. When will Fender ever learn about these? Slop in the threaded section is always a problem on Fenders and the nylon bush solution solved it 100% so why are Fender still pissing about with soppy little springs in the base of their arms that go missing and don't work as well. I had a CP Jazzmaster and the screw in arm creaked and groaned every time you moved the arm, even once greased. It also had excessive slop. Frankly it was dreadful.

@MattFGBI sorry bud, but this is all
old news. I'm amazed that anyone from Fender *doesn't* understand this stuff. And I'm damn sure this has been raised before on here and I said similar...

Trotter · December 2016

Anyone know what happened to the H H telecasters? No videos, not in new marketing shots? @MattFGBI ?

meltedbuzzbox · December 2016

Moe_Zambeek said:

This thread is a great example of why guitar companies can do no right on guitar forums.

I think these look good, they address some of the common complaints with modern Fenders, are USA made and not *too* much more expensive than stds, with a range of decent / interesting colours, yet still they're 'wrong' before anyone has ever played one

I wouldn't go that far but look at the jazzmaster, it's never had a standard model.

We've had blacktops, mascis models, classic players, the new Mexican things, squier, humbuckers with hard tails, strat jack sockets and additional assortments of configurations that aren't quite right.

The AVRI was the only exception but that's a vintage reproduction (and for me not that great)

All the offset world has wanted is a USA jazzmaster standard. 9.5" radius, 22 frets, a fixed fucking bridge that isn't a cheap nasty TOM, modern voiced pickups, headstock adjustable truss rod (@impmann has summed it all up above)

Fender have a whole website over at OSG dedicated to offsets. It takes fuck all effort to start a thread there to get this ironed out. (OSG have loads of these threads anyway)

And @impmann hit the nail on the head with the toggle switch.

Rant over

Moe_Zambeek · December 2016

So this one with 9.5" radius, 22 frets, slightly hotter modernish pickups, a revised bridge design that isn't a TOM, and headstock end truss adjuster is somehow completely wrong? Seems like it does pretty much everything in your lists bar the switch placement and possibly the arm mounting, though we don't know whether that is a defect or not.

I think that proves my point!

lasermonkey · December 2016

For me, the Jazzmaster should have:
Staytrem style bridge. It works just how it should. I like it floating.
9.5" radius. Although I get on with 7.25" just fine, the former edges it on playability. I'd buy both though. I have both.
Trem arm taller. It's just too close to the fretboard and I keep having to make my own.
Different pot values. 1M is way too shrill.
Truss rod adjustment at the headstock. Ok, it doesn't look as nice, but it's much more practical. Again, not a deal breaker for me.

Other than that, a decent choice of colours.

The number of frets isn't that big a deal for me, as I rarely venture all the way up that end. If it doesn't affect the sound, and I can't imagine why it should, I wouldn't object.
I wouldn't buy a Jazzmaster or Jaguar with a fixed bridge. I love the feel of the original and it's the only trem system I really get on with. Losing that would be a deal breaker for me.
I'm also in the vintage-voiced pickup camp, so wouldn't want them buggered around with too much.
Oh, and keep the maple off the fretboard. It's just wrong.

I suppose what I'm saying is that Fender more or less got it right first time and the constant tweaks they keep making are not the right ones. Stop making Jazzmasters and Jaguars for people that don't like them and concentrate on making them for people who do!

MattFGBI · December 2016

The Tele Deluxe is coming. Loaded with the new Shawbuckers. Will be in the shops soon.

I understand that people have strong opinions on what spec works and what doesn't but I'd recommend playing them before making your mind up.

impmann · December 2016

@MattFGBI I will, but having played offsets for some time, I know the switch is in the wrong place, I won't like a screwfit arm and the bridge posts will need glue on the threads to stop the adjusters from slackening...

timmysoft · December 2016

Jaguars and jazzmasters are the cause of third world poverty. Set them all on fire.

lasermonkey · December 2016

Outside, now! ;-)

Alnico · December 2016

lasermonkey said:

Outside, now! ;-)

A duel !

Back to back, 10 paces and then spin around and give it your best riff and guitar face.
I want Video of this !

jellybelly · December 2016

impmann said:

@MattFGBI I will, but having played offsets for some time, I know the switch is in the wrong place, I won't like a screwfit arm and the bridge posts will need glue on the threads to stop the adjusters from slackening...

to be fair, my AV65 jag bridge did not slacken even slightly in over 18 months before I got a staytrem, so maybe Fender have addressed the issue already, and screw-in trems aren't the end of the world - staytrem it if the rest of the spec works. I really think people are getting upset about a switch in the wrong place and not much else.

lasermonkey · December 2016

Well, the switch being in the wrong place, the missing rhythm circuit (and the body not being routed for it, if the pics over at OSG are anything to go by) and the wrong neck.
Apart from that.....

jellybelly · December 2016

That sounds lot like an AV65, they need to differentiate them and modernise - I don't blame them for missing out the rhythm controls. Every other JM has them so if that's what you want from an Offset there are more than enough options. What's wrong with the neck? 22 frets? Do people want a modern Jazzmaster without some of the modern features?

I think it's getting to the point that people are upset that their personal ideal Jazzmaster hasn't been made. Of course this is going to not quite be a vintage Jazzmaster but with very specific upgrades, it's a modern Jazzmaster for people looking around the AV65 price point but wanting a more modern vibe. The string spacing may not be ideal, and like I said the switch was fine in its original place, but the rest of it is perfectly sensible, if not for everyone.

Babones · December 2016

lasermonkey said:

Well, the switch being in the wrong place, the missing rhythm circuit (and the body not being routed for it, if the pics over at OSG are anything to go by) and the wrong neck.
Apart from that.....

I believe that's a picture of an American Special Jazzmaster, not the new Pro.

impmann · December 2016

jellybelly said:

impmann said:

@MattFGBI I will, but having played offsets for some time, I know the switch is in the wrong place, I won't like a screwfit arm and the bridge posts will need glue on the threads to stop the adjusters from slackening...

to be fair, my AV65 jag bridge did not slacken even slightly in over 18 months before I got a staytrem, so maybe Fender have addressed the issue already, and screw-in trems aren't the end of the world - staytrem it if the rest of the spec works. I really think people are getting upset about a switch in the wrong place and not much else.

Glad it worked out for you - perhaps my technique makes that phenomenon worse. Or perhaps your bridge had been doctored slightly before you got it - the AV65 bridge was the same as the bridge on the AVRI62. I had one of those...

Screw in arms *ARE* the end of the world if you play with subtle hand vibrato - as they clank and creak on JM/Jags, which is then amplified by the strings behind the bridge and it sounds awful. Despite all the "tricks" people talk of with this it was still shockingly bad on the Classic Player I had. On a guitar costing this much and called "professional" it shouldn't have such a flawed design - and its just there for cheapness. If they can fit Staytrem licensed arms to the Marr Jag, then this should have one IMHO... I'd rather pay £30 extra and have one factory fitted... wouldn't you?

My post - to Matt - was a response to his suggestion to play it, which was a response to his previous email asking for what a modern Jazzmaster ought to be. Perhaps I'm being judgmental - and I will try one - but its clear that the marketing team who dreamed up this guitar did so to try to appeal to non-offset players more than those who already do and wanted something 'professional'. Its another example of "almost" from Fender... and when we are asked for suggestions, we are told to try what they are currently making before being judgemental.

Its not about 'getting upset' or the other suggestion that folks are just describing their perfect Custom Jazzmaster... I'd also refer to a previous thread where someone built just that, and Matt criticised them for the logo (despite it being none of his business) and others asked why that individual didn't just buy a Fender. Perhaps this goes some way to answering that... I'd love a genuine Fender - truly I would - but nothing currently available ticks the boxes, at ANY price. And I haven't seen a new CS Offset for sale in the UK (other than those examples that have been for sale for ever...) for two years - and I've been watching.

The thing with offsets is, those of us that play them are passionate about them - and the flaws in the design (or quirks, for those who are purists) can be overcome with some reasonably invisible modifications (or changes to technique... or the application of nail varnish). Sadly, Fender keep releasing instruments that solve problems few of us have and fiddling with elements of the design that actually work. And at these prices, I shouldn't need to buy a guitar and instantly replace the bridge and trem arm...

jellybelly · December 2016

I apologise if 'getting upset' caused offence. Please replace with 'is annoyed by'.

My jag was bought new, played loads and the bridge was fine, though I appreciate that's anecdotal. It has been noted (again anecdotally) on OSG that the 65 bridge is sturdier and better made than the 62.

Though I agree - Staytrem-style upgrades to the bridge and trem should have been a no-brainer, especially since there is precedent with the Marr Jag. And I agree, I don't think this is a guitar for Offset purists. Like you say though - some pretty simple mods make a vintage-style JM or jag perfectly playable. I don't think it's a case of 'give them a try' more likely they're just not for you. I bet Fender will sell a load regardless.

Out of interest, If the JM and jag came stock with staytrem bridge/trem and the switch in the right place, would people be happy?

Babones · December 2016

impmann said:

And I haven't seen a new CS Offset for sale in the UK (other than those examples that have been for sale for ever...) for two years - and I've been watching.

There are a couple of '61 JMs on Coda that are new (I think).

impmann · December 2016

Oops! Well those must have arrived since I was last there, as when I last looked they only had that red on with p90s (no thanks).

Thing is... on a personal level, why relics? I'm not a fan and Ocean Turquoise wasn't available in '61, so why team it with a corned beef pickguard? Yuk. The white is ok but again the relic thing ruins it for me... :-) Maybe I'm too fussy...

jellybelly · December 2016

Can't you order something directly from the custom shop, via a dealer (or perhaps not?)

Otherwise the 'custom' might be a bit of a misnomer.

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