Possible for a Vintage Strat Trem to stay in tune?

Niallseroreilly · December 2016

Got a AVRI 59 strat a few years back, great guitar, sounds lovely.

With that said, the trem was initially unusable as any time it was used, all strings went out. So I hardtailed the bridge.

But alas i would like a trem on it.

So is it possible to have it setup correctly so that tuning remains stable?

I had a previous prs that was flawless in this aspect, always returned to original tuning.

Thanks

Jack_ · December 2016

It'll never be perfect, but at the same time, it shouldn't be unusable.

I'm resistant to give him a plug because of his hard-sell tactics, but Wudtone's bridges do actually do a good job of curing some if not all of the deficiencies of the standard 6 point Fender trem.

Has the guitar ever been set up to float, or was that just how it came? How many springs? What points on the claw are you connecting them to? Has the whole thing been set up floating, adjustments to the claw etc? Height of the 6 screws?

ICBM · December 2016

Yes, it's perfectly possible to set up a standard 6-screw vintage-style trem to stay in tune near-perfectly unless you go completely nuts with it. There is a lot of nonsense about it, but it's really a simple mechanical system and if you approach it like any other such system it will be fine.

Vintage-style tuners make it slightly more difficult, but it can still be done provided you string them correctly - although the G string can still cause trouble, because it's impossible to minimise the number of wraps on the post and create enough break angle at the nut at the same time if there's no G/D string tree.

boogieman · December 2016

A vintage 6 screw trem can be made to work absolutely fine and should come back to pitch. It won't take massive dive bomb abuse but normal use shouldn't be an issue. Most trem problems actually start at the nut end, get that sorted first....make sure the slots are decently cut, they're nice and smooth and well lubricated (nut sauce or powdered graphite is best but even pencil lead will work).

richardhomer · December 2016

The nut and string trees are usually the source of the problem - set up properly it should be fine (Gilmour uses his all the time without needing to resort to a Wudtone).

One thing to check, is how the screws at the leading edge are adjusted.

The best way to do this, is to take the strings off and remove the springs. Lay the guitar flat (face up) on a table and gradually lower each screw until the rear of the bridge plate lifts off the body. As soon as it lifts, slacken the screw until the plate lies flat again - but don't go any further.

Reinstall the springs and restring.

Assuming the nut is properly cut and the string tree isn't binding, once the strings are properly stretched, it should return to pitch reliably.

sweepy · December 2016

There is no magic to making a vintage Strat trem stay in tune, as listed above, a well cut nut and sensible string winding/stretching methods work wonders.

Stevepage · December 2016

I cheated and had a graphite nut and graphite saddles fitted to my strat. Locking Tuners too, however I think it's all to do with the nut slots.

It depends how you use the trem too. Dive bombs? Forget it

Musical warbles and jeff beck like use? Entirely possible

timmysoft · December 2016

use the outside anchor screws as your pivots, slacken off the middle four a little higher so they're just doing the alignment, you'll find it less of a fight to balance the spring to string then.

richardhomer · December 2016

timmysoft said:

use the outside anchor screws as your pivots, slacken off the middle four a little higher so they're just doing the alignment, you'll find it less of a fight to balance the spring to string then.

This doesn't make any difference - the countersunk knife edges are still in contact with the middle screws - so it doesn't reduce friction in the system at all.

ToneControl · December 2016

mine has worked fine for 30 years
Pro set up and graphite nut
very stiff springs (although I don't think that is why it is so stable)

Rarely needs any retuning

koneguitarist · December 2016

A mate played in a shadows tribute band (with the rest of the Shadows) and wanted his strat to stay in tune better, but thought he had trouble with string tree. Wanted to do something but wanted original looks. I took old butterfly tree off turned it upside down and filled in string grooves with a glue and graphite mixture, then cut a string slot into each and replaced it.
From above it looks standard, but it's filled with graphite and worked a treat.
Agree with all about keeping in tune, it's not rocket science, yet have realistic expectations, it's a vintage trem, not a floyd Rose.

Cols · December 2016

Probably worth remembering that EVH used a '58 Strat vibrato for Van Halen 1. The Floyd Rose didn't come until much later.

dogload · December 2016

I'm not sure what the issue is. Like @ToneControl I've used my Tokai Strat almost constantly as my main guitar since 1984 and it stays in tune fine. I had it set up once in 1985 and since then I've never had a problem, just check the intonation every now and again when strings get changed, but nothing major.
My Jap Paisley one is the same, although it doesn't get as much use.
Obviously when I used to give them serious trem-abuse they'd need a bit of a re-tune on the bottom E or the G but normal use they are both pretty stable - the Tokai especially; it can do a 3-hour band practice without drifting too far out,

Blacksheep · December 2016

richardhomer said:

One thing to check, is how the screws at the leading edge are adjusted.

The best way to do this, is to take the strings off and remove the springs. Lay the guitar flat (face up) on a table and gradually lower each screw until the rear of the bridge plate lifts off the body. As soon as it lifts, slacken the screw until the plate lies flat again - but don't go any further.

Reinstall the springs and restring.

This. And lube regularly.

steamabacus · December 2016

Galeazzo Frudua's YouTube channel has an excellent series of videos on setting up a vintage strat trem.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL51EDE4C9EE773C24

Also this one on tuning ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc6slYRc

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Possible for a Vintage Strat Trem to stay in tune?

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