Are Toys R Us and Maplins next to go under ?

EricTheWeary · February 2018

boogieman said:

chillidoggy said:

I'm not surprised about Maplin. Whilst I 've found the stores to be pretty good, their prices are astronomic compared with online purchasing. I always wondered how they managed to keep going.

Bit like WHSmiths. No idea how they managed to struggle on for so long. Must be their profits from massively overpriced books and chocolate bars at the railway stations.

I usually mention WH Smiths in Discussions about ailing businesses. As far as I know they still have some wholesale business as well as near captive audiences in some places ( their mark ups in hospital branches are incredible) but I know some have gone off the high street and I expect to see more.

I usually wonder about Boots too, in their big branches the stock is spread around trying to fill in space. They just feel like a struggling business.

ToysRus terrible service whenever I went, I really didn't like it as a shopping experience. There are some other big names on the high street now like The Entertainer and Smyth's that seem to be doing a similar job but on a more manageable scale.

jellyroll · February 2018

I buy my toys from Coda.

boogieman · February 2018

EricTheWeary said:

boogieman said:

chillidoggy said:

I'm not surprised about Maplin. Whilst I 've found the stores to be pretty good, their prices are astronomic compared with online purchasing. I always wondered how they managed to keep going.

Bit like WHSmiths. No idea how they managed to struggle on for so long. Must be their profits from massively overpriced books and chocolate bars at the railway stations.

I usually mention WH Smiths in Discussions about ailing businesses. As far as I know they still have some wholesale business as well as near captive audiences in some places ( their mark ups in hospital branches are incredible) but I know some have gone off the high street and I expect to see more.

Wis. Prime example of Smith’s profiteering in hospitals: when my mum was in recently I bought a bottle of still water from WHS. It was £2.20. The next time I was visiting I got the exact same thing from the M&S branch, also in the hospital: 99p.

I think they have (had?) a big magazine distribution business. Maybe that’s propping them up too, but I’d imagine that must be a shrinking business these days.

guitars4you · February 2018

jellyroll said:

I buy my toys from Coda.

worth more than one LOL - Love that quote

ICBM · February 2018

NelsonP said:

Need a toy - go to Amazon
Need some specialist electrical or electronic items - go to Amazon
Need some disco lights - go to Amazon

Cheaper than the high street. You can even have it today if you want. Without moving your arse off the sofa.
But surely all of the money leaves the UK economy that way? And we end up with deserted high streets and boarded up shops.

Should this be stopped? Or is it just market forces at play, laissez faire etc.
Can anyone really stop it?

Yes, it should be stopped or at least curtailed. The playing field can at least be levelled a bit by making them pay the proper amount of tax in the countries they sell to, which would put their prices up - actually quite drastically, since their profit is very small relative to their large turnover.

Funkfingers · February 2018

Fretwired said:
Trump wants to stop it. He hates Amazon as they dodge taxes

See. Americans CAN do irony!

Fretwired · February 2018

ICBM said:

NelsonP said:

Need a toy - go to Amazon
Need some specialist electrical or electronic items - go to Amazon
Need some disco lights - go to Amazon

Cheaper than the high street. You can even have it today if you want. Without moving your arse off the sofa.
But surely all of the money leaves the UK economy that way? And we end up with deserted high streets and boarded up shops.

Should this be stopped? Or is it just market forces at play, laissez faire etc.
Can anyone really stop it?

Yes, it should be stopped or at least curtailed. The playing field can at least be levelled a bit by making them pay the proper amount of tax in the countries they sell to, which would put their prices up - actually quite drastically, since their profit is very small relative to their large turnover.

Virtually impossible with globalisation to deal with firms like Amazon with inter-company charges and so forth. The ideal solution is a web-based transaction tax on UK orders. They can't dodge that. However, it could be argued that online shopping is progress - cheaper goods delivered to your door when you want them. Greater choice. Perhaps the high street should be allowed to die.

EricTheWeary · February 2018

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

NelsonP said:

Need a toy - go to Amazon
Need some specialist electrical or electronic items - go to Amazon
Need some disco lights - go to Amazon

Cheaper than the high street. You can even have it today if you want. Without moving your arse off the sofa.
But surely all of the money leaves the UK economy that way? And we end up with deserted high streets and boarded up shops.

Should this be stopped? Or is it just market forces at play, laissez faire etc.
Can anyone really stop it?

Yes, it should be stopped or at least curtailed. The playing field can at least be levelled a bit by making them pay the proper amount of tax in the countries they sell to, which would put their prices up - actually quite drastically, since their profit is very small relative to their large turnover.

Virtually impossible with globalisation to deal with firms like Amazon with inter-company charges and so forth. The ideal solution is a web-based transaction tax on UK orders. They can't dodge that. However, it could be argued that online shopping is progress - cheaper goods delivered to your door when you want them. Greater choice. Perhaps the high street should be allowed to die.

There are a number of ways in which high streets can survive and thrive and in some places they do. It does, however, require some poor local decisions not to have been made ( so are now hard to undo) and for councils not to be in thrall to the supermarkets. Some things will be better bought off the internet , some from out of town warehouse type places and some from the high street. There's just too much overlap now and town centres that haven't been kept up to date and individual businesses that haven't kept up to date. People love shopping and the shopping experience. For some people it's also a necessity as they still live in a primarilly cash based economy ( pound shops, Aldi,etc) or at least feel they will only get bargains if they put in the shoe leather.

Rocker · February 2018

If people buy everything online, there will be no 'bricks and mortar' shops. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in?

Fretwired · February 2018

Rocker said:

If people buy everything online, there will be no 'bricks and mortar' shops. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in?

People are buying those new fangled noisy motor cars - there will soon be no horse drawn cabs or carts on our roads. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in.

Fretwired · February 2018

EricTheWeary said:

There are a number of ways in which high streets can survive and thrive and in some places they do. It does, however, require some poor local decisions not to have been made ( so are now hard to undo) and for councils not to be in thrall to the supermarkets. Some things will be better bought off the internet , some from out of town warehouse type places and some from the high street. There's just too much overlap now and town centres that haven't been kept up to date and individual businesses that haven't kept up to date. People love shopping and the shopping experience. For some people it's also a necessity as they still live in a primarilly cash based economy ( pound shops, Aldi,etc) or at least feel they will only get bargains if they put in the shoe leather.

My town centre is full of bars and restaurants. Even the Post Office has gone. We have a shopping centre but that has an M&S and a WH Smiths (both struggling), coffee shops and the rest are fashion stores and a couple of high end jewellers. Clothes stores are probably more resistant as people will want to try things on. The two book shops have gone as has the CD stores, games store, Sony Centre and a host of other shops.

We also have a John Lewis but even they are struggling at store level. They make their profits online.

boogieman · February 2018

Rocker said:

If people buy everything online, there will be no 'bricks and mortar' shops. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in?

People don’t buy everything online, that’s why there are still shops. As long as they offer something that online retailers can’t then there will still be space for bricks and mortar shops. For instance a new bakery has just opened in our local parade of shops and he’s doing a roaring trade.

Fretwired · February 2018

boogieman said:

Rocker said:

If people buy everything online, there will be no 'bricks and mortar' shops. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in?

People don’t buy everything online, that’s why there are still shops. As long as they offer something that online retailers can’t then there will still be space for bricks and mortar shops. For instance a new bakery has just opened in our local parade of shops and he’s doing a roaring trade.

It won't be a proper high street though will it. When you have the likes of John Lewis in trouble with their store sales you know things are tough. There will be basic things that survive, like food stores, clothes shops, jewellers and specialist shops but when you can go in a shop, check something out and then buy it online and save money what hope is there?

TheBigDipper · February 2018

Rocker said:

If people buy everything online, there will be no 'bricks and mortar' shops. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in?

Not me. I understand why a retail outlet that has customers coming through the door needs to charge more than an online tax avoiding warehouser does. People who who visit them, check out the goods and then buy online from someone else are entitled to think they're smart and they've saved some money - in the short term, they have. But at what long term cost to all of us? Local retailers are worth supporting - you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone... Paradise is being paved every day...

I've knew someone who fell on hard times and ended up working for Amazon at a packing depot in Wales. He felt unvalued, badly treated and couldn't wait to get away - which is hard if you live in an area that's got very few other employment opportunities. Which is one of the reasons their depots are sited where they are - cheap labour and desperate local government giving tax breaks and incentives to move in and employ local people. The race to the bottom.

NelsonP · February 2018

Fretwired said:

Perhaps the high street should be allowed to die.

This is an interesting question and I think the crux of the issue.

I'm joining the dots a bit, but I guess that most 'high streets' emerged from the historic market / trading areas or a particular town. Where people used to bring their locally produced wares to flog them.

The nice thing about that it was largely a self contained economy e.g. the baker made and traded his bread in his high street shop. In the afternoon he went to the local bike shop to get the wheel on his bike fixed. The bike shop owner, tired at the end of a hard day mending bikes, went to the pub and bought a beer. The next morning the landlord went to the baker to buy his loaf of bread and so it continued.

In the new model, the baker doesn't have a job as a baker because someone else makes the bread and the local Tesco convenience store sells it. Now he has upskilled and sits in front of a PC emailing people all day about stuff. He doesn't bother fixing his bike wheel, he just buys a new bike from the internet because they are cheap and so is the credit he uses to pay for it.

The money he borrows and spends doesn't just leave his community. It leaves the country and goes to Amazon and the bloke in China that made the bike wheel, who has no interest in having a beer at the bakers local boozer. So the baker stops going there and the boozer closes.

Meanwhile he keeps busting the wheels on his bike because the local council haven't repaired the pot holes in the road. Because the Amazon shareholders have the money that would have been paid to the council through taxes.

But at least he can get a new bike wheel cheaply and quickly while sitting on his arse.

I like the old model better. You?

Axe_meister · February 2018

Tis odd though. Countries in Europe don't have the same issue as they don't have identical high streets. Most shops outside of malls are small independents with quality goods. I think the UK has tried to be too much like the US

TheBigDipper · February 2018

I've not checked my memory, but... from memory, I believe central Paris districts charge very low rates for certain "local" businesses types such as bakers, tobacconists, bars so they can afford to stay in their local areas.

midlifecrisis · February 2018

Fretwired said:

EricTheWeary said:

There are a number of ways in which high streets can survive and thrive and in some places they do. It does, however, require some poor local decisions not to have been made ( so are now hard to undo) and for councils not to be in thrall to the supermarkets. Some things will be better bought off the internet , some from out of town warehouse type places and some from the high street. There's just too much overlap now and town centres that haven't been kept up to date and individual businesses that haven't kept up to date. People love shopping and the shopping experience. For some people it's also a necessity as they still live in a primarilly cash based economy ( pound shops, Aldi,etc) or at least feel they will only get bargains if they put in the shoe leather.

My town centre is full of bars and restaurants. Even the Post Office has gone. We have a shopping centre but that has an M&S and a WH Smiths (both struggling), coffee shops and the rest are fashion stores and a couple of high end jewellers. Clothes stores are probably more resistant as people will want to try things on. The two book shops have gone as has the CD stores, games store, Sony Centre and a host of other shops.

We also have a John Lewis but even they are struggling at store level. They make their profits online.

sounds like where i live, in fact looking at your location im guessing you could be in the same bit of herts as me. sky high business rates and dificulyt parking have driven out small independent businesses, now its driving out many multiples. Online sales are higher these days. But our local shopping centre is the sames as all the others, 2 main retail stores, a collection of phone shops, a few chain coffee shops and a load of charity shops.

guitars4you · February 2018

NelsonP said:

Fretwired said:

Perhaps the high street should be allowed to die.

This is an interesting question and I think the crux of the issue.

I'm joining the dots a bit, but I guess that most 'high streets' emerged from the historic market / trading areas or a particular town. Where people used to bring their locally produced wares to flog them.

The nice thing about that it was largely a self contained economy e.g. the baker made and traded his bread in his high street shop. In the afternoon he went to the local bike shop to get the wheel on his bike fixed. The bike shop owner, tired at the end of a hard day mending bikes, went to the pub and bought a beer. The next morning the landlord went to the baker to buy his loaf of bread and so it continued.

In the new model, the baker doesn't have a job as a baker because someone else makes the bread and the local Tesco convenience store sells it. Now he has upskilled and sits in front of a PC emailing people all day about stuff. He doesn't bother fixing his bike wheel, he just buys a new bike from the internet because they are cheap and so is the credit he uses to pay for it.

The money he borrows and spends doesn't just leave his community. It leaves the country and goes to Amazon and the bloke in China that made the bike wheel, who has no interest in having a beer at the bakers local boozer. So the baker stops going there and the boozer closes.

Meanwhile he keeps busting the wheels on his bike because the local council haven't repaired the pot holes in the road. Because the Amazon shareholders have the money that would have been paid to the council through taxes.

But at least he can get a new bike wheel cheaply and quickly while sitting on his arse.

I like the old model better. You?

I like your thought plan - Today we are leaning heavily towards a form of 'corporate fascism' whereby a few powerful corporations control and dictate the whole aspect of their business model - The price, origin and supply of their product, the price of labour they employ and even what tax they pay and where they pay it - With powerful lobbying and influences that extends into governments - Be it Amazon and/or Supermarkets amongst others - Will be interesting to see what 'real buying choices' we have in 10 years time regarding main stream products and services

Heartfeltdawn · February 2018

TheBigDipper said:

Rocker said:

If people buy everything online, there will be no 'bricks and mortar' shops. Is that the kind of world YOU want to live in?

Not me. I understand why a retail outlet that has customers coming through the door needs to charge more than an online tax avoiding warehouser does. People who who visit them, check out the goods and then buy online from someone else are entitled to think they're smart and they've saved some money - in the short term, they have. But at what long term cost to all of us? Local retailers are worth supporting - you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone... Paradise is being paved every day...

I've knew someone who fell on hard times and ended up working for Amazon at a packing depot in Wales. He felt unvalued, badly treated and couldn't wait to get away - which is hard if you live in an area that's got very few other employment opportunities. Which is one of the reasons their depots are sited where they are - cheap labour and desperate local government giving tax breaks and incentives to move in and employ local people. The race to the bottom.

Exactly. The Shirebrook regeneration programme that ended up housing Sports Direct is a prime example of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirebrook#Regeneration

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Are Toys R Us and Maplins next to go under ?

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