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Sometimes - ditto - I start with a bass line.
Sometimes - guess what - the start point is messing about with a drum pattern.
Sometimes - ! - it's pressing random keys on my midi keyboard and then random patch selections.
But I don't think I've ever started out with a structure or template. That's just too "structured" for the way that my brain works with music!
But then, I've got no music theory training/knowledge/understanding, so I tend to just mess about rather than aiming to produce something that has X bars of this, followed by Y bars of that, and then the obligatory Z bars of something else.
(Yes, I know, it should be Z *C*ars, not Z *B*ars)
Michael Jackson started with the bass line, Paul McCartney often started with melody. If you want people to dance you start with groove, if you want them to cry then melody or chords.
I usually start with drum groove or melody, then chords and bass.
The subject of structure is complex but there are I think 6 different structures that together cover almost all chart music of the last few decades. Ralph Murphy goes through them in this lecture, among other things https://youtu.be/8wBOUJ5Mbrk
On the the other hand this guy Freidmann Findessen opened my eyes with this book on the current (post advent of the DAW) trends in arrangement and structure: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Addiction-Formula-Captivating-Commercial-Songwriting/dp/9082391309
Thats more than you need at the moment though. If you’re trying to get your first song down then simplify by predeterming a dumb structure : 4 bar intro, 8 bar verse, 4 bar bridge, 8 bar chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, mid 8m bridge chorus, ending.
I often at that point leave it and it and move on then when I have a bit more time I will review the noodling and if there is anything worth it even a little run of notes or a chord groove.
I will try working that up to something a little bigger. Ultimately my success rate is probably 1-100riffs or noodles that go through to end up a finished song.
so it’s not very efficient. What I have learnt over the years is that I lead a very busy work life have done for years and the few times I have taken a guitar on holiday a few days off from work and the ideas flow very fast without the work a day stress it comes much easier.
my final motivation when I have time to go from start to finish in a day is to just use a very simple common progression trying to find that one off riff or tune is wasted on me I just play 3 or 4 chords round and round then try and right 3 verse lyrics everything around those chords letting the lyrics just free form again I have everything plugged into the iPad or use pocket memo. Once I have verse and a chorus the rest for me is just window dressing and I can do intro pre chorus whatever quiet easily.
all this presumes I ever have time to just do music ultimately these days with my own business it amounts to a few days writing per year.
i used to take a week of and work with my oldest guitar mate but I find that hard these days as I like to work quick and dirty try and get an idea down quick and rough and he likes to sit their with all his plugins and build a huge production as we go and I find whilst I am waiting to see wether he likes a sub octave on the bass or whatever the moment leaves me. So that week off seems to have hit the back burner at the moment.
so I think what I am saying is just try stuff and find a method that works for you.
Less than a day later I had the entire song written with little effort. I’ve spent weeks writing stuff that’s not half as good.
So yeah, record as much of your meandering as you can - you may not notice the one little nugget while you are playing it.
But then again....
I also have a 'scrapbook' folder where I'll record less fully formed ideas I might want to come back to - riffs, chord progressions etc
What determines the length of verse / chorus etc for me is mainly my lyric ideas (or lack of), and / or just creative ideas - eg maybe repeating the chorus would work at this point
Never play something three times the same way. Never play something only once, unless it’s the middle 8 but even it will usually be one section played twice.
Human brain need repetition. Human brain either getting more excited new stuff or it getting bored.
then my brain starts going off on things like "how many bars should the next part be?" and it all falls apart.
The drum intro breaks the rule by doing the same thing four times=BORING!
But I did hear some small noise in there, by putting in noises along the way you can start to tell a story in that first 20 secs and justify the four bars of drums.
Yeah bar two there’s a subtle noise of something being switched on, that’s great. Bars 3 and 4 need noises in increasing number or volume to create drama and anticipation for the coming verse.
Im not saying ut those in now, I’d just write down “add x here”, “crescendo y here” and move on at this stage which is planning.
Youve already got some melodic content from the guitar part. The melody could take those idea and use them in a different way while the guitar retreats to accompaniment mode. I also hear droning background harmonies - low and masculine - but that’s just me.
Low vocal melody in 8ths feel, hitting a lot of one note then moving a little to a stable tone. Try a suspension here or there.
This allows the melody to gain energy over s few bars so it can work up to reiterating the melodic idea from the guitar intro: this is going to be the lift/bridge where the melody moves upward to get toward the higher register for the chorus. Guitars and drums go a bit mad and boom you’re in the chorus.
See how this way of thinking tells you where the next section begins based on the way the parts build tension and energy? It’s impossible to do it this way if you write all the non vocal parts first. OK R.E.M. did it but there’s a reason many of their songs sound a bit samey and they were masters.
Make sense? I don’t mean to tell you what to do, but you did ask and I love talking about this stuff!
Listening again. There’s great use of space in this intro, that creates anticipation and which gives the dramatic feel. A bit like “Us and Them” from DSOTM but here it’s the guitar that stabs and waits against the groove instead of the vocal.
I also find that singing a rough melody can be better than constructing it on guitar. That avoids going to default licks /scales.
The last thing I do is work out what I've ripped off and if it sounds too similar. It's really easy to spend a lot of time working on something where the pattern feels fresh only to realise you're playing an already famous riff in a different key with inverted chords.
a lot of drum programs have a basic song pattern built in, I use those sometimes.
otherwise, a few chords progressions, usually acoustic on repeat, then try some guitar hook lines.
Main ideas lately have come from synth groove presets, they can often spark off a feel just with the rhythm and sound,
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think simple... then add the complex parts after...
for example, my entry for this month Rotm comp started as a simple 1-4 chord progression. Emaj to Amaj worked out a tempo by tapping an app on my phone, set the auto drummer going in logic, found a bass loop I liked and edited it to match the E and A... set the whole thing to loop... messed about with some guitar riffs until I had something that I thought was catchy...
now i have drums, bass, backing and a hook riff.
then you go in and change it a bit... I played the Emaj in a different shape, inverted chord, tweaked the drum pattern to give me more of a groove and tarted up the riff... submitted to Rotm...
sent the submission to bandmates to get their opinions on it and within 15mins had the mp3 sent back with the singer humming a melody over it... so now we have a chorus!... time to get a verse out of it... took a simple approach to this... went with 1-4-3 chord progression but changed it to the minor... so Emin, Amin & G...
now we have a chorus, verse and intro (same as chorus) chopped the parts into 8 bar loops for ease.
quickly laid down 8 bars of intro (riff heavy), 8 bars chorus, 8bars verse, 8 bars chorus, 8 bars verse, 24 bars chorus.
The track is now with the singer for him to come up with lyrics, the final structure will be decided after we see what he has...
so from simply strumming an E and an A we now have a start on a compleated new track... prolly won’t get to number 1 in the charts but it will get our lot up and dancing!... could be musical gold I tells ya!...
Very poppy/dancy track... and I originally set out to write an 80’s hair metal riff for the comp!...
take inspiration from wherever it comes from and work from that!
I often come up with a riff or progression and then find it very difficult to know where to go with it next.
The idea i heard about was to basically record the original idea and then noodle around over the top of it and record anything interesting that comes along, then mute the original idea and noodle over the second idea and so on.
This can give you several different ( but connected ) ideas to piece together. It can also lead to the original idea being discarded and flying off in a completely different direction.
just take any existing. Song that you like, and build bars to the same structure, you can’t go far wrong initially.
also, listen to all the ideas posted in ROTM etc , which ones do you think are good and why ?
ive taken lots of ideas from those entries I can tell you .
i notice the few you posted seem a little melancholy at the moment, that may Well Be the vibe you want, but these can be bought to life with some nice guitar Melodie riffs,
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Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
https://www.studiowear.co.uk/ -
https://twitter.com/spark240
Facebook - m.me/studiowear.co.uk
Reddit r/newmusicreview