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EricTheWeary said:
Yes exactly. But if you make a product that many like, then the price becomes much less of an issue, up to a point. Players are much better off than they were in the nineteen-eighties!
The PCB takes about an hour to hand assemble using traditional 'through hole' components. If I was to convert it to surface mount components and the board assembled by 'pick & place' machine... much of it could be done in 1 minute! The big components still have to be placed by hand of course. So, manufacturing being competitive in the UK again is really possible.
Conventional 'through hole' components won't be around much longer for general use, but what will be left are likely to get quite expensive as they become more and more redundant. So, the shift to SMT components will be the only way forward. Laney have used them extensively for the last five years in their amps (inc valve), along with a few others. This means often, sending your amp back to the manufacturers for fixing!
Currently, you have to order container loads of amps from China to get a good price! And then quickly sell them all... a financial risk. This is a dying business model for smaller market like our beloved music industry, which is also highly fashion led. One reason why the government is promoting UK IT based manufacturing again.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with SMT components. It's easier to replace the very economically made PCB with a new one if it goes wrong. This means all the controls are replaced too, which may go wrong at a later time... so where's the problem?
If an SS amp is well designed and made to run cool, (a lot are not) it will last for many years. Heat is the biggest killer of components in all electronic equipment, so I use an aluminium chassis as a big heat sink which dissipates the heat away seven times better than steel does.
The mechanical components will ware out eventually, but I suppose they could be replaced in the traditional way.
"Just because it's never been done before, is the very reason to make it happen" - Me!
You say there's nothing wrong with SMT (I agree to a point) and that you make mention of the cheapness in replacing a failed board.
This is fine and dandy if boards are available - sadly, most musos think of guitar amps as being a non-disposable thing, ie it can always be repaired. If boards have all been used up, and the devices on those boards are either unavailable or required programming in situ on a jig that has long been broken up, then your amp becomes scrap. The cost of respinning a board can run into thousands and therefore the manufacturer isn't likely to foot the bill for that either - and that assumes that you can still get the devices on that board.
This isn't just true of modelling amps, a lot of companies are now slotting digital reverb and effects onto boards inside "valve" amps, and this is fine whilst the boards are available. Fast forward five years after production ends and the situation isn't so great.
Also a question... in the Blues Baby, why did you choose to use a 'power chip' for the output section? My experience is that they're a cheap and nasty solution, unreliable (despite the claimed protections they have) and average-sounding at best. I've never heard one amp I've really liked the sound of which uses one, and I can't remotely remember how many dead ones I've replaced - probably more than individual power transistors. They seem to have a very 'flat' dynamic response and don't sound as loud as their rated power would suggest. All the solid-state amps I like the sound of use traditional topology with discrete transistors. (And OK, many that I don't!)
It's interesting that Marshall have moved back to discrete-transistor output on the current MG100CFX, after the appalling failure rate on the DFX and AVT series with IC output modules.
I have to say a big part of my interest in the BB evaporated when I saw that.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I see your point totally. My answer may seem blunt, it's not intended to be. Any guitar amp that's not a very basic valve amp will suffer those problems. We designers don't decide any of the factors you mentioned.
But, even buying a nice expensive amp from a custom valve amp maker, you'll never be certain you can get any of the transformers, if he should die! What will anyone do then? Get the nearest available? It might not then be the same amp any more.
What if, as UL in USA have talked about once already, that they decided to ban valves from all new domestic equipment in USA. That would be the biggest single market DEAD in the water... what would happen to valve availability with that market demand GONE?
Don't think it won't happen, it can and still might! Although I hope not. Nothing is safe any more, with green issues hovering all the time! When USA coughs... the whole world follows suite!
I'm not so certain your fears are such a big issue... and let's face it, my amps are too simple and economical to let that be a major worry. My Sessionettes are still going and fixable! The oldest one is now 33 young and we were told back then they'd never stand the test of time with PCBs in them. Well....?
Not aiming this at you, but us Brits are pretty good at designing wonderful products and ideas... and then finding a million reasons why we shouldn't make it. I like change, others don't... I accept that. No matter what I do, someone will like it or dislike it... my saviour is the part of the market that does like what I do. I'm happy with that cut... it will NEVER be 100%.... not for anyone!
As I said... I don't mean to sound aggressive, but I am a plain talker!
"Just because it's never been done before, is the very reason to make it happen" - Me!
Chip power amps perform as well as you let them. The trouble is, most amp makers treat them badly in the design by letting them run too hot.
Marshall - they have no idea about those MosFfet power chips!! They're rated at 100W RMS in hifi/TV applications where the signal is fairly dynamic and never gets distorted! This means the average power into the load is about 15-20 watts max, clean..
Now, what happens if you stuff distorted guitar into the chip at 50% to full bore power? It gets very hot indeed. Those chips are not man enough for that job! The surface area of the chip is not big enough to get the heat away into the heatsink quick enough, therefore, it bottles up inside the chip and POP! It's all over!
Forensics - We can see that they'd worked very hard to get the AVT100 to work reliably, because of the existence of the huge heatsink and computer fan tell us so! Huh... because of the small surface area of the chip in contact with the heatsink, that heatsink and fan would NEVER be enough to keep the chip cool! The heat could not escape quick enough!! Doh! 100 fans would not help it. Not even burying the chip in an iceberg.
Now this is the kind of stupidity that gives SS chips a bad name... no matter who makes them. The actions of one or two 'cheap-skate' high profile guitar amp makers using technology they don't fully understand has led to your generalised opinion.
BluesBaby uses a 68W chip outputting 22 watts into 8 ohms. It's mounted onto an alli chassis which dissipates heat 7x faster than steal! That chip barely gets hot at all.
Golden Rule... Heat kills components! If I was to allow that chip to reach 100°C, then it would die in a few years or even sooner. Keeping it cool will enable it work for many, many, many years without fail. Well, there might be the odd failure, but they would be very rare.
Car manufacturers can calculate the date of death of voltage regulators in alternators. The voltage regulator manufacturers supply a chart to work it out by the temperature you let it them at.
The guitar amp industry is widely known to cut corners in this country with such matters. Fender don't. Their stuff is always designed to be reliable and they never push their ratings. The old Marshall 8040 40W amp, with a discreet output stage, only outputs 28 watts into an 8 ohm resistive load... so where did they get the 40W rating from? Beats me...!!! With that and the inefficient cheap Celestion speaker, it might explain the basis of the 'transistor watts quieter than valve watts' fable?
OK, these are messages 'from the other side', explanations you don't ever hear. This is partly why I signed up to TFB. I wanted to represent SS and help build a better image for it. Its constant slagging is unfair, without a right of reply.
Sorry you lost interest in BluesBaby... but that the way it goes. But then, it clearly is not your kind of amp... as much as I would find your amp horrendous too. But that's not because either are SS or valve - it's because they designed differently by different people who like different sounds! Simplz Egor!
"Just because it's never been done before, is the very reason to make it happen" - Me!
Wow, thanks for your support! Have you tried it yet into an 8 ohm speaker cab?
It sounds great with my ES-175 and Gretsch Anniversary! My favourite guitar into it, is my 1971 Les Paul Deluxe, with the mini humbuckers. They're a really kick-ass cross between standard HBs and P-90s. Such an under-rated LP version!
We did buy four BJr cabinets off ebay some time ago before BB went onto the market... but not since. We don't want to compete for them with our customers.
"Just because it's never been done before, is the very reason to make it happen" - Me!
I haven't entirely lost interest in the Blues Baby... just had it dented a bit . I haven't yet heard a power chip amp I really like the sound of, even when they don't die, but I could possibly be proved wrong...
I completely agree with you about those AVT and MG Marshalls with the fans - I won't even accept them for repair any more if the fault is anything to do with the power module, because they cannot be guaranteed and it reflects badly on me if they die again. And the 8040 is certainly an example of creative spec'ing with a crap speaker! Although I think it sounds pretty good with a decent one. Using poor speakers is one of my pet hates, as I know it is for you - they (and other companies) do it in many of their valve models too. And poor quality cabinets...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Just because it's never been done before, is the very reason to make it happen" - Me!
with regards to the sessionette I can only say that there are good tones to be had, but not without some patience setting the amp up for whatever venue or studio performance. I used to have a rockette in the eighties and loved the bird to bits even shoehorned a EV force 10" speaker in that sweetened the sound even more. fast forward clock 30 years and pick up a sessionette 75 bog standard stock in grey carpet,.... and oh boy it sounds soooo sweet on the clean with all my electrics it has this polished treble that i just cant get out of my fender 75 tube amp, even with the bright switch on. Using an old guyatone TD-1 tube distortion on the sessionette gives me all the drive i need plus a nice crunch using the sessionette channel blend option. The drummer always complains for pointing her (the amp) to close to his snare drum,....haha. I agree with people that the sessionette is build to a budget dont have a single top on the knobs anymore, but hey were talking of 1983 when this lass left the factory in Brittain, hey all my valve amps have had fortunes spend since then, this little box is still Rocking from new. So yes it was build to a budget but with a lot of care and consideration for the end user, Mr sessionman is still here for you should you need his service were talking over 30 years here man! thats commitment to a product and not something you can say today very often.
Well... I ordered a spare power amp for my Sessionette 75 from award-session in december. The money was booked instantly, but no parts were delivered. There was absolutely no reply to email or mail. Very disappointing! Now I am waiting for a back-payment... So much about my experience with his service.
Finally I fixed my Sessionette the "SMP Artizan"-way (using a inexpensive and powerful L15-D power amp).
/\
@rsvmark why not ask @Sessionman - Trevor designed and built them!
Blending the channels - stick the three way switch on the amp in the mid position...
I was going to say that, but couldn't quite remember if it was true, since my Sessionette 75 died some years ago. I've still got it though, under a thick layer of (protective?) dust.
I remember having intermittent problems with that channel selection switch, it would sometimes make very loud popping noises in use.