Has anybody started using modelling amps

Barney · January 2019

Just wondering how many have went from valve amps to modellers like headrush ..helix or kemper ECT ...and how have you found the change ..it seems as though the gap is really closing up from what I read ...but how do they compare in a live band situation.. ? Pros cons ECT

sw67 · January 2019

Helix with powered speaker means I just plug and play at every gig. I also have the same patches but set up for different guitars as well as my acoustic. I don't think I could give up my valve amp completely but for now i only use it at home. I have now done 30 or so gigs with the helix and would buy another if I had to. For pub gigs its hard to beat

Branshen · January 2019

I can't speak for gigging but for recording, modelling is excellent. I went from a 20 watt tube amp to an atomic ampli-fire box direct to interface.

Benefits for recording

no need to faff about setting up mics
recorded amp sounds are excellent (I use mainly fender type clean tones but have tried the distorted tones and they are good too)
no extraneous noises (fan noise, road noise etc.) even if you're not in a perfectly controlled studio space
volume control. No need to crank a huge tube amp to get good sound
Takes up almost no space
variety of amps and tones to choose from (but I usually just stay with one..)

Roland · January 2019

I’ve always used multi FX because it was cheaper than buying individual pedals, and much more flexible for live use. A single footstep can change several settings. A midi controller takes up less room on the floor than a pedal board.

For me changing over to modelling was a two step process, and took about six months. First amp modelling, but playing through the power stage of my amp. Secondly switching to FRFR, and getting rid of the amp altogether. A powered floor monitor takes up less room than an amp and speaker. At the end of the evening I don’t have to wait for the valve to cool down before moving my amp.

There is a different sound with modelling. You hear what the audience does, like an amp mic’d up through the PA. It comes through your monitors, not from an amp behind you. So I can have whatever monitor volume I want without affecting the FOH. It has also stopped arguments about volume. I know exactly what settings I’m using, and that they haven’t changed.

Benefits:
- Flexibility. You can have several different amp sounds without a multi-channel amp.
- Space.
- Convenience.
- Volume. You control it.

Cons:
- You have to learn to use it. With a valve amp many decisions are made for you, and you can’t change them without buying a new amp. With modelling you become much more aware of compression, EQ, and the way they appear to change with volume.
- Getting used to hearing a recorded or mic’d up sound.

Stevepage · January 2019

Haven't gigged with my Helix yet (March) but I had a Peavey JSX and 4 x 12 cab.

I love the sound of the amp but I hated carrying something so heavy, took up a lot of room and never got to use it with the volume passed 1.

Bought the Helix, used the PV power amp to get a tone. Loved it.

Then sold the PV and bought a powered speaker.

Loving it and it's about a 1/4 of the size and weight.

TheBigDipper · January 2019

I'm going to sound like @p90fool here - if I remember his story correctly. I've tried several different modellers over the years, interspersed with valve amps and a pedalboard. Every time I've appreciated the convenience of the modeller and come to dislike the sound and how it feels to play after 3-4 months of use. I've also found them harder to fix "on the fly" if something isn't working on the night. I don't, however, have his masterful use of the volume control...

Currently using an AMP1, 4-cable method and an HX FX - on the same smallish T-Rex pedalboard I used to use for my conventional setup. In the main, I'm using the clean channel of the AMP1 and taking the "pedal platform' approach, but the other channels and features on the AMP1 get used too. I'm controlling it from the HX FX via MIDI.

The AMP1 doesn't need a speaker load, so you can plug into the PA and use a speaker IR if you want to. I've got a BluBox for that, but the HX FX will load an IR, too. I'm using a 1x12 cab.

I should qualify this by saying I've never used anything from Fractal, nor a Kemper, nor a full-fat Helix - so I'm not dissing any of those solutions cos I haven't tried them. But there are alternatives that seem to be working for me so far....

ecc83 · January 2019

My stance on the Modeller V Valve debate is, Give 'em a chance FFS! We have had valve PAs for 70 odd years. The first Fenders were too clean for the rock people. Ever since there has been a more or less violent debate about the sounds of amps/speakers/pedals!

Modellers have been with us for what, ten years? I was lucky enough to be "there" when some of the work was done on a particular range of products (6'x4' whiteboard covered in math I had not clue about!). The resulting amps are NOT in the Kemper price range but seems to have been fairly well recieved.

Even today I doubt many punters down the Mucky Duck know or care what the guitarist is using. At home or in a studio, bit different but even then, by the time it gets in the mix?

Then there is the fact that valves will only ever get more expensive and as the tooling wears, probably even crappier. They are very "ungreen" devices to make, inefficient (by clicks!) to use and nasty to dispose of. I give it 20yrs tops then the only peeps with valve amps will be billionare rock gods and THEY will keep quiet about it!

Dave.

fretmeister · January 2019

Yup.

For guitar I'm 100% Helix

For bass - a bit of both. 100% Helix in the house / recording, but for my current gig I take a Darkglass M900 and a super lightweight Barefaced One10 cab - sometimes a pair. It's a swing band so I don't need all the options the Helix gives me - although if they had a PA worth having then I'd just take the Helix and go direct and leave the amp and cab at home.

John_A · January 2019

Yes, gigged with a Helix for almost 3 years, never sounded better

The fact that one of the best players on the forum from what I've heard, is so far out of touch with how good modellers now are probably indicates the rest of us spend too much time looking at new gear and not enough time playing

Cirrus · January 2019

Helix since last September. Band folded and an AC30 was pointless at home.

I've not gigged it yet, but am absolutely happy with it for recording. I think it sounds great, and because of my previous experience of the real amps, pedals, cabs and mics being modelled I wasn't swamped in the possibilities it offers - just got straight to work with it.

Danny1969 · January 2019

For My Kate Bush trib I've gone over to a Vox Tonelab SE, Which I think is the most underrated Modellers ever and a snip at £180 or so used. It's sounds more real to me plugged directly into a PA then a lot of others. In that band there's a lot of different sounds needed and space is critical as some gigs mean 6 of us in one crew cab van travelling to Scotland for a theatre gig

My keyboard rig in that band is 100% modelled too .... just a dumb midi keyboard controlled Xpand software on a Macbook

For pub covers gigs I'm still HRD and pedals, for corp gigs Marshall rack system and 4 x 12" (shock & awe approach

)

digitalscream · January 2019

I'm 100% Helix now. We recorded our whole album with a combination of Helix LT (early on) and Helix Native in Reaper, and - having used a great mixing engineer - it sounds basically perfect. Nobody who didn't already know it was modelling has been able to tell that there weren't any amps involved.

For live stuff, I've mucked around all over the place - used loads of different modellers, modellers with pedals, valve amps with pedals etc - and I'm settled on Helix LT -> SD Powerstage 170 -> guitar cab. I honestly couldn't be any happier with my tone than I am right now, particularly since I've tried other options since getting the Helix and it still gives me the best setup.

Here's the thing...a lot of folk say that using modellers involves a tonal compromise, regardless of whether you intend it as such or not. However, using valve amps in a practical rig also involves compromise - at least, it always has for me. There isn't a valve amp in existence that gives me the exact combination of clean, crunch and lead that I want - much less one which gives me each of those gain levels at varying volumes. So...I then ended up with various boost and EQ pedals to mould it into kinda what I wanted.

Those options are baked-in with a modeller and are trivial to implement without loads of moving parts. They're extra-easy with the Helix thanks to snapshots. The result is that I can make exactly the tone I imagine in my head and keep it consistent across gain and volume levels.

Plus...there's the fact that I'm a broken shell of a man, and my entire rig (Helix, amp, cab, guitar and cables) comes to about 22-24kg depending on the guitar I take. That's an easy lug from the car in one trip or an even easier one in two, and I can't overstate the importance of that.

I genuinely do believe that, for me, my current rig is the best of all worlds. Sure, it'd be nice to have a sprung switchless option on the expression pedal without resorting to an external unit, and even nicer to have really accurate fast-tracking polyphonic pitch shifting, but honestly? They're nice-to-haves in comparison with the rest of it.

Barney · January 2019

Thanks everybody for the in depth replies everybody
..it's something I really need to look at especially for portability ..I feel as though I am miles behind with all the new technology

PolarityMan · January 2019

Helix antive for demo'ing, we recorded our last record through a kemper but still cant beat a valve amp for live (admittedly with a helix in front). I do basically have one of the the best valve amps in existence though so i guess im a bit spoiled

crunchman · January 2019

Other factor no-one has mentioned is reliability.

I've had my Kemper a while now, and I'd estimate that I've put over 1000 hours of use on it. I've not had a single issue in that time.

I don't think I've ever got 1000 hours (or anything close to it) from a valve amp without something needing doing - even if it's just valves that go bad and need replacing. Replacing valves isn't the end of the world, but it is a hassle, and they have a habit of starting to make sputtering noises at the most inopportune times! If it's the power valves then I've got to open up the chassis to bias it as well.

If you are going to use a modeller live, you do need to make sure that you have decent monitoring. I tried using mine live 4 or 5 years ago but gave up because I didn't have decent monitoring available, and couldn't really hear myself on stage. I've now bought a QSC active cab, which has solved that problem.

p90fool · January 2019

crunchman said:

Other factor no-one has mentioned is reliability.
I've had my Kemper a while now, and I'd estimate that I've put over 1000 hours of use on it. I've not had a single issue in that time.
I don't think I've ever got 1000 hours (or anything close to it) from a valve amp without something needing doing - even if it's just valves that go bad and need replacing.

And yet the Katana I sold died on its new owner a month out of warranty, and the Atomic Amplifire I bought lasted six days before it died.

I can fix anything on a valve amp myself, but my last two modellers are landfill already. I have spare valve amps lying around if one dies (it's happened twice to me since 1980), but I'm buggered if I'm buying two Kempers just in case.

TTBZ · January 2019

Not yet but I still want to give Helix a proper chance - will probably take the plunge later this year having been going on about it for ages now. We have another baby on the way which means I'll get even less chances to play with a real amp let alone at decent volume. Modelling just makes so much more sense. I've got great tones at home with plugins (Mercuriall Spark) so I know it can be done - I just want that tone in a hardware unit rather than being tied to the computer.

I started on modellers, my first amp only had a clean channel so I used to plug my V-Amp 2 into that. Always liked the versatility even if it wasn't the best sounding modeller by current standards.

FarleyUK · January 2019

Yep. Used Helix, AX8 and now settled on Kemper for home and live.

So much easier to port around, incredibly versatile with tones and sounds, pedals etc. Superb pieces of kit - IMO, from all of them I've tried, the Kemper just nails the 'feel' of playing a valve amp as well.

crunchman · January 2019

p90fool said:

crunchman said:

Other factor no-one has mentioned is reliability.
I've had my Kemper a while now, and I'd estimate that I've put over 1000 hours of use on it. I've not had a single issue in that time.
I don't think I've ever got 1000 hours (or anything close to it) from a valve amp without something needing doing - even if it's just valves that go bad and need replacing.

And yet the Katana I sold died on its new owner a month out of warranty, and the Atomic Amplifire I bought lasted six days before it died.

I can fix anything on a valve amp myself, but my last two modellers are landfill already. I have spare valve amps lying around if one dies (it's happened twice to me since 1980), but I'm buggered if I'm buying two Kempers just in case.

You might be able to fix everything on a valve amp, but if a valve starts to make spluttering noises mid-gig because of a bad valve, being able to fix it doesn't stop massive problems with your gig. That kind of thing is far less likely to happen with something like a Kemper.

John_A · January 2019

^ I still carry a backup for the Helix (a Tech 21 Fly Rig) and haven't had to use it once in 3 years. The warranty is about up though so I'll shut up and stop tempting fate

digitalscream · January 2019

crunchman said:

p90fool said:

crunchman said:

Other factor no-one has mentioned is reliability.
I've had my Kemper a while now, and I'd estimate that I've put over 1000 hours of use on it. I've not had a single issue in that time.
I don't think I've ever got 1000 hours (or anything close to it) from a valve amp without something needing doing - even if it's just valves that go bad and need replacing.

And yet the Katana I sold died on its new owner a month out of warranty, and the Atomic Amplifire I bought lasted six days before it died.

I can fix anything on a valve amp myself, but my last two modellers are landfill already. I have spare valve amps lying around if one dies (it's happened twice to me since 1980), but I'm buggered if I'm buying two Kempers just in case.

You might be able to fix everything on a valve amp, but if a valve starts to make spluttering noises mid-gig because of a bad valve, being able to fix it doesn't stop massive problems with your gig. That kind of thing is far less likely to happen with something like a Kemper.

Also...a patch on a modeller will sound exactly the same every time you switch it on. A valve amp's tone will gradually degrade over time until the valves die and are replaced, at which point the cycle starts again. That's actually a big part of why I've always hoped that modeller tech would get to the stage where something like the Helix came into existence.

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Has anybody started using modelling amps

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