I think there's something special about my early 80's ibanez ts9

riffpowers · May 2014

I've got an early 80's ibanez (maxon) ts9 . I've had it since I was a teenager , and I've kept coming back to it time and time again . I've owned several maxon od9's/808's/820's and none of them have sounded like my original . I currently have a Macon od9 pro+ . Great pedal , but doesn't sound like my original . Drive and tone all the way off and level full up , a/b'd next to the maxon od9 pro+ my original ts9 is louder , grittier , punchier and just "more" !!! Was there something special about the early ones ?

ICBM · May 2014

Which chip does it have? They've used several different ones.

ChrisMusic · May 2014

If you haven't already seen this, it may cast some light on part of your question. It gives the history of the Tube Screamer.

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/14911/green-giant-history-of-the-tube-screamer#latest

riffpowers · May 2014

ICBM said:

Which chip does it have? They've used several different ones.

I opened it up once and it does have the JRC 4558D that everyone raves about.

Alnico · May 2014

riffpowers said:

ICBM said:

Which chip does it have? They've used several different ones.

I opened it up once and it does have the JRC 4558D that everyone raves about.

..........from the days when those chips were made properly.

What a great thing to have. Don't ever sell it, a really good one is a special thing these days.

I was bought the EHX 'East River Drive' by @Alnico_II for christmas and while it's a good effect that uses a JRC 4558, it's not a patch on an original TS.

monofin · May 2014

I too have one from the early 80's. It was the first pedal I bought as a teenager. Cost me £15 of saved up pocketmoney.
Mine's not going anywhere either

riffpowers · May 2014

Alnico said:

riffpowers said:

ICBM said:

Which chip does it have? They've used several different ones.

I opened it up once and it does have the JRC 4558D that everyone raves about.

..........from the days when those chips were made properly.
What a great thing to have. Don't ever sell it, a really good one is a special thing these days.
I was bought the EHX 'East River Drive' by @Alnico_II for christmas and while it's a good effect that uses a JRC 4558, it's not a patch on an original TS.

Its not going anywhere!! I've been enjoying using it again in the new band Ive just started. Only thing is I would like to get a replacement for it , as I'm using it in a band again I wouldn't like to think it'd get knacked!! I was thinking it might be time to retire it from gigging and get another one.

ThePrettyDamned · May 2014

Alnico;232599" said:
riffpowers said:

ICBM said:

Which chip does it have? They've used several different ones.

I opened it up once and it does have the JRC 4558D that everyone raves about.

..........from the days when those chips were made properly.What a great thing to have. Don't ever sell it, a really good one is a special thing these days.I was bought the EHX 'East River Drive' by @Alnico_II for christmas and while it's a good effect that uses a JRC 4558, it's not a patch on an original TS.

Is this actually true? Visual sound claim that, according to the factory in Japan, those chips were always made the same, and never went out of production.

I think.

It's been a while since I saw the video XD

Bidley · May 2014

I've got an 80's TS9, it's the only pedal that's lasted nearly 10 years of playing and gigging.

p90fool · May 2014

riffpowers said:

Only thing is I would like to get a replacement for it , as I'm using it in a band again I wouldn't like to think it'd get knacked!! I was thinking it might be time to retire it from gigging and get another one.

I had to retire my 1981 TS808 simply because I couldn't afford to leave a pocket-sized 400 quid on top of my amp in a pub.

I tried a cheapo, used Tonelok TS7 and loved it, I now have three of them and use them all the time. I don't know what the circuit differences are between the various models but the TS7s I have are a return to the smoothness of my 808 after the slightly grainy quality of some of the intervening models.

I ran the TS808 alongside the TS7 in the studio for a couple of years and to be honest the difference was so negligible I stopped using the 808 and recently flogged it for 200 quid more than I paid for it.

Try one, they're usually about £25 and are a good backup if nothing else.

Bidley · May 2014

Those Tonelok pedals are all highly underrated. They might look 'orrible but they sound great.

Alnico · May 2014

ThePrettyDamned said:

Alnico;232599" said:
riffpowers said:

ICBM said:

Which chip does it have? They've used several different ones.

I opened it up once and it does have the JRC 4558D that everyone raves about.

..........from the days when those chips were made properly.What a great thing to have. Don't ever sell it, a really good one is a special thing these days.I was bought the EHX 'East River Drive' by @Alnico_II for christmas and while it's a good effect that uses a JRC 4558, it's not a patch on an original TS.
Is this actually true? Visual sound claim that, according to the factory in Japan, those chips were always made the same, and never went out of production.

I think.

It's been a while since I saw the video XD

You could be right there........

I am always guilty of presuming that everything that was made in the 80's was better quality than the accountant led shite that companies turn out these days. I can't remember where I heard that the components of an early 80's TS are better than modern ones but I had heard it somewhere and have pretty much always believed it.

If it does break, there are plenty of techs that can revive and resuscitate it for you so I wouldn't retire it if it's the sound you love. It will always cost less to fix than replace.

ICBM · May 2014

They've never gone out of production, but it wouldn't surprise me if the current ones aren't exactly the same as the old ones. There is a good reason this might be so - the old ones are a *poor quality* component, from an electronics point of view. With improving technology comes the ability to make something to essentially the same spec, but better.

But it may well be the *low* quality of the original part that gives it the desirable sound - just as in fact, valves aren't really very good amplifying devices compared to transistors and introduce all sorts of problems, from a pure audio electronics point of view. But that's *why* they sound good for guitar.

So just because both old and new TSs use "JRC4558D" chips doesn't necessarily mean they sound the same. The chip might *not* be the difference, either - you'd really need to compare the same pedal with old and new chips to be sure. Other components have tolerance which affect the sound, and some - electrolytic caps - do change value with age… usually considered a failure mode, but depending on where they are in the circuit it may actually "improve" the sound.

ThePrettyDamned · May 2014

Cool info, thanks man

I have to admit, there is so much surrounding old tubescreamers, there must be *something* going on. A combination of drifting part values and a 'worse' chip seems as good an explanation as any!

GuyBoden · May 2014

The TS has been copied and researched in minute detail. Many pedals are just TS clones with very slight variations.

For precise information, I like this:
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/tstech/tsxtech.htm

I bet you couldn't tell the difference if you change the opamp to a TLC2272, which costs a £1.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/operational-amplifiers/0284236/

crunchman · May 2014

Changing the op amp can make a significant difference. It definitely made a difference in my TS9 reissue when I changed the TA75558 to a (new production) 4558.

What the difference is between the 4558 and the TLC2272 is I don't know but I wouldn't want to say that there would be none.

GuyBoden · May 2014

crunchman said:

Changing the op amp can make a significant difference. It definitely made a difference in my TS9 reissue when I changed the TA75558 to a (new production) 4558.

What the difference is between the 4558 and the TLC2272 is I don't know but I wouldn't want to say that there would be none.

The extremely popular TS uses a Dual Opamp with a feedback loop containing diode soft clipping and a gain pot between pins 1 and 2. This is a very standard Dual Opamp circuit, but the balance of frequencies in the circuit design makes this a very good guitar overdrive pedal.

READ THIS:

ICBM · May 2014

I actually think it may be the *second* stage - the tone control - where the chip has more of an impact. The first stage is just a gain stage which is heavily limited by the clipping diodes in the feedback loop, and do have a large impact on the tone… and I would guess easily override the chip. There's also a cap in the loop which will limit the high frequency response.

But the second stage is a clean amplifier with no further distortion in it or after it, and so it could have far more of an effect… both on the tone and on the volume, since although it also has heavy NFB, it isn't hard-limited in the same way as the first stage.

GuyBoden · May 2014

ICBM said:

I actually think it may be the *second* stage - the tone control - where the chip has more of an impact. The first stage is just a gain stage which is heavily limited by the clipping diodes in the feedback loop, and do have a large impact on the tone… and I would guess easily override the chip. There's also a cap in the loop which will limit the high frequency response.

But the second stage is a clean amplifier with no further distortion in it or after it, and so it could have far more of an effect… both on the tone and on the volume, since although it also has heavy NFB, it isn't hard-limited in the same way as the first stage.

Yes I agree, but also the 20K Tone pot after the Feedback loop between pins 7 and 6 on the 2nd stage has a very significant effect in the circuit.

ICBM · May 2014

GuyBoden said:
Yes I agree, but also the 20K Tone pot after the Feedback loop between pins 7 and 6 on the 2nd stage has a very significant effect in the circuit.

Yes, it's probably 20% tolerance. That could make a lot of difference.

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I think there's something special about my early 80's ibanez ts9

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