22nd fret, can an action height be achieved that is lower than 1.5mm without buzzing.

GuyBoden · May 2020

In an ideal world, I'd like an action height at around 1.5mm or less, all over the neck on a 22 fret neck.

I'm playing a lot of lines between the 12th and 22nd frets, so this action would help.

Has this been achieved?

And if it has, how?

Thanks

Guy

Roland · May 2020

“I saw this and thought of you”. https://youtu.be/EeXkvwmH0ts

ICBM · May 2020

Yes - at least if you mean 2mm. 1.5-1.6mm at the 12th fret is normal, so it should still be no more than 2mm at the 22nd. Make sure the neck is as straight as possible without rattling in the low positions - relief less than .010", preferably lower.

It might be difficult on a 7.25" radius board if you bend a lot, but it still should be close.

rossi · May 2020

My Fender replacement strat neck on my telecaster is a roasted maple 12 inch radius and the widdly side is 1.70 mm .The bass side is 2.1 at the 22nd fret though it might well go lower .I tend to just set them up by playing .A straight neck ,strings on the ground then raise them until they dont rattle .Probably the wrong way to do it .I normally put just a tad of relief in .

kentuckyklira · May 2020

A flat as possible fretboard and straight as possible neck will help. Then there are guitars like Vigier where the action can be set ridiculously low.

JCA2550 · May 2020

I consider 2mm at the 22nd fret to be medium-high.

axisus · May 2020

My Parker fly deluxe had an insanely low action (not that I ever measured it). Although I could play fast and smooth on that guitar my preference eventually went towards higher actions. I prefer to dig in a bit rather than glide around at speed.

I'm not saying that it is the case with you, but years ago I just thought that super low action would be the best thing, but the reality for me was that other things also come into play.

GuyBoden · May 2020

Thanks for the advice, with some more precise truss rod adjustment, I've managed to get the low E string to be nearly 2mm at the 22nd fret without buzzing, but I'd like to get lower.

It's a bolt on neck, so I am considering a shim at the front of the neck to raise the fretboard. Will this help?

danny_777 · May 2020

GuyBoden said:

Thanks for the advice, with some more precise truss rod adjustment, I've managed to get the low E string to be nearly 2mm at the 22nd fret without buzzing, but I'd like to get lower.

It's a bolt on neck, so I am considering a shim at the front of the neck to raise the fretboard. Will this help?

I think you're fundamentally limited by the fact that.... strings vibrate. They move around when they're struck and this creates buzz. There will also be tiny inconsistencies of fret height, unless yours are freshly - and perfectly - dressed.

If you can't do what you want on a 2mm string height at 22, it's not the string height that's the problem.

GuyBoden · May 2020

danny_777 said:

GuyBoden said:

Thanks for the advice, with some more precise truss rod adjustment, I've managed to get the low E string to be nearly 2mm at the 22nd fret without buzzing, but I'd like to get lower.

It's a bolt on neck, so I am considering a shim at the front of the neck to raise the fretboard. Will this help?

I think you're fundamentally limited by the fact that.... strings vibrate. They move around when they're struck and this creates buzz. There will also be tiny inconsistencies of fret height, unless yours are freshly - and perfectly - dressed.

If you can't do what you want on a 2mm string height at 22, it's not the string height that's the problem.

Yes, you're correct, strings vibrate in an elliptical pattern, lighter strings more so than thicker.

Like most guitars the action is at it's highest at the 22nd fret. I am playing a lot of lines between the 12th and the 24th frets, so I find this higher action a bit annoying and would like to get it lower.

ICBM · May 2020

GuyBoden said:

Thanks for the advice, with some more precise truss rod adjustment, I've managed to get the low E string to be nearly 2mm at the 22nd fret without buzzing, but I'd like to get lower.

Getting the low E lower than that at the 22nd and having it vibrate *cleanly* is going to be very difficult unless you play with a feather for a pick. The high E, maybe... but only just.

Some players do play very lightly and/or are more tolerant of fret buzz, but personally I wouldn't even try to get it lower than that.

GuyBoden said:

It's a bolt on neck, so I am considering a shim at the front of the neck to raise the fretboard. Will this help?

Only if the reason it won't go lower now is because the bridge is bottomed out. A shim only adjusts the relationship between the neck and the bridge, it doesn't change how low you can get the action relative to the frets.

In fact, a shim can sometimes introduce a very slight up-turn at the very end of the neck, so it might be counterproductive if you're right on the limit already.

danny_777 said:

If you can't do what you want on a 2mm string height at 22, it's not the string height that's the problem.

This.

GuyBoden · May 2020

ICBM said:

GuyBoden said:

Thanks for the advice, with some more precise truss rod adjustment, I've managed to get the low E string to be nearly 2mm at the 22nd fret without buzzing, but I'd like to get lower.

Getting the low E lower than that at the 22nd and having it vibrate *cleanly* is going to be very difficult unless you play with a feather for a pick. The high E, maybe... but only just.

Some players do play very lightly and/or are more tolerant of fret buzz, but personally I wouldn't even try to get it lower than that.

GuyBoden said:

It's a bolt on neck, so I am considering a shim at the front of the neck to raise the fretboard. Will this help?

Only if the reason it won't go lower now is because the bridge is bottomed out. A shim only adjusts the relationship between the neck and the bridge, it doesn't change how low you can get the action relative to the frets.

In fact, a shim can sometimes introduce a very slight up-turn at the very end of the neck, so it might be counterproductive if you're right on the limit already.

danny_777 said:

If you can't do what you want on a 2mm string height at 22, it's not the string height that's the problem.

This.

Excellent info and advice as usual. Many thanks, I suppose I'll have to live with this action height.

Matt_McG · May 2020

Just checked my PRS SE, which I think of as having a medium-low action, but not 20 inch radius flat board widdly-woo action. It's a tiny fraction over 2mm at the 22nd fret, as in I can just (barely) slide a 2mm thick pick between fret and string leaving a tiny gap. Bit more on the low E.

Also, I endorse:

If you can't do what you want on a 2mm string height at 22, it's not the string height that's the problem.

Check Yngwie's action some time.

Funkfingers · May 2020

Matt_McG said:

Check Yngwie's action some time.

... or Gilmour's or SRV's or Roy Buchanan's.

My advice is not to get too hung up on action statistics. I have often found that guitars become more usefully playable after raising the action (or going up a gauge without adjusting the truss rod tension).

ICBM said:

Yes - at least if you mean 2mm. 1.5-1.6mm at the 12th fret is normal, so it should still be no more than 2mm at the 22nd. Make sure the neck is as straight as possible without rattling in the low positions - relief less than .010", preferably lower.

Getting the low E lower than that at the 22nd and having it vibrate *cleanly* is going to be very difficult unless you play with a feather for a pick.

The other circumstance where this sort of set-up makes sense is for the Stanley Jordan two-handed touch playing approach. i.e. Faux Chapman Stick, low tension, low action, very stiff/straight neck.

GuyBoden · June 2020

I've increased the action slightly at 22nd fret, I have a light(ish) touch, but it did buzz a bit when I got too excited when playing.

GuyBoden · June 2020

ICBM said:

danny_777 said:

If you can't do what you want on a 2mm string height at 22, it's not the string height that's the problem.

This.

I'm concentrating on playing Legato on this guitar and a low action at the higher frets seems to help.

mrkb · June 2020

I’d struggle to bend a string with a 1.5mm action, I find the tend to slide under my fingers. Do you bend strings? If so what’s the best technique?

GuyBoden · June 2020

mrkb said:

I’d struggle to bend a string with a 1.5mm action, I find the tend to slide under my fingers. Do you bend strings? If so what’s the best technique?

No, I never bend strings, not really my style, but I like players who do it well.

RaymondLin · June 2020

I managed to get the action of my Tele silly low, like under 1mm on the 12th Fret for the High E and about 1.2mm on the Low E. It does not buzz anywhere.

For the Strat due to the relief on the neck I can only manage to get it to about 2mm on the low E and 1.5mm on the High E on the 12 fret. In fact the saddle for the Low E doesn’t go any lower. So to get it any lower I need to straighten the neck more or cut the nut deeper. But I plan to put 9’s on it next time so it should be lower then.

Both are 7.25” radius.

Henrytwang · June 2020

RaymondLin said:

I managed to get the action of my Tele silly low, like under 1mm on the 12th Fret for the High E and about 1.2mm on the Low E. It does not buzz anywhere.
For the Strat due to the relief on the neck I can only manage to get it to about 2mm on the low E and 1.5mm on the High E on the 12 fret. In fact the saddle for the Low E doesn’t go any lower. So to get it any lower I need to straighten the neck more or cut the nut deeper. But I plan to put 9’s on it next time so it should be lower then.

Both are 7.25” radius.

A small shim at the front of the Stratocaster neck pocket will enable you to achieve a lower action.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

22nd fret, can an action height be achieved that is lower than 1.5mm without buzzing.

Comments