Using hifi as a studio monitor

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Might be a daft question but can you use your hifi as a studio monitor. ie. Can you use the line out RCA's from and audio interface into your hifi pre amp/power amp to monitor through your hifi speakers or the output from your PC via a DAW into the hifi system or do you need to get studio monitors specifically?

Ian

Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    You can, it is better than nothing but hifi speakers are usually a bad idea to mix on unless you are spending a LOT of money on them.

    Are you releasing what you mix on them?
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    I did on a mid range system for many year before I got monitors, reasonably nice speakers etc and I have to say the improvement in clarity when switching to monitors was night and day.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited July 2020
    Yes the issue is translation.

    You can get a good sound with consumer hifi in your room because you can mix to the inherent characteristics of that speaker.
    What mixers are looking for is neutrality and time-domain accuracy.
    Most hifi monitors don't give this.

    So when you take your 'good sounding mix' on your coloured hifi speakers to other systems they sound... unbalanced.
    If you aren't mixing for release then it is less important- any port in a storm and such.
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627

    The analogy which I always use is that of an artist painting a picture in their studio.  They require strong, natural, light in order to get the colours right.  The painting may be viewed in all sorts of lighting conditions but at least it will start out as being ‘right’.  By contrast if you were to try to paint in say the yellow light from a sodium street light you would most likely get the colours badly wrong.  It may look ok in the room where you painted it but it would be shocking seen anywhere else.

    When mixing this is the difference between good, neutral, monitors in an acoustically well treated room and a set of HiFi speakers in an untreated spare bedroom.  You have to use what you have / what you can afford so the best method is to keep trying your mix on other systems and take notes.  Also, a set of modest open backed headphones (I use AKG K702’s) can help, particularly with the bottom end.

    It’s a pain but, sadly, there are no easy (cheap) fixes.  The ‘correction’ software is improving but there is still a long way to go, if indeed we ever get there, to turn a bad system into a good one.


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  • Bill_SBill_S Frets: 103
    I also use AKG K702 headphones. I would  trust these over hifi speakers.Better still, good studio monitors in an acoustically treated room, for all the reasons given above, but may not be practical of course. 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Technically a large amount of  records  are mixed on hi fi speakers, being as the good ol Yamaha NS10's were \ are  hi fi bookshelf speakers not studio monitors. I used those for years along with some large Panasonic's and some oddball Goodmans.  I'm using an Acoustics research hi fi amp now and the oddball Goodmans. Basically out of audio interface into RCA of amp. Being non balanced is of no consequence on short runs of less than 2 metres. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Danny1969 said:
    Technically a large amount of  records  are mixed on hi fi speakers, being as the good ol Yamaha NS10's were \ are  hi fi bookshelf speakers not studio monitors.
    Yes, but generally with £3k amplifier- Brystons.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    octatonic said:
    Danny1969 said:
    Technically a large amount of  records  are mixed on hi fi speakers, being as the good ol Yamaha NS10's were \ are  hi fi bookshelf speakers not studio monitors.
    Yes, but generally with £3k amplifier- Brystons.
    Yes Brystons were popular. I used the Yamaha PMXXX  stereo amp, BC recommended it on Gearslutz. Very simple linear old school AB amp with bags of clean headroom. 


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11790
    also remember that commercial releases have been professionally mixed and then mastered again - they are set up to sound good, and sit within normal dynamic ranges.

    When you record and play live through hifi speakers, you will have a large variety of levels, and will have a far higher chance of blowing the speakers, as I have done in the past. if you overload hifi, the distortion of the top end can put huge energy into the bass/middle, and cook the voice coils in the bass/mid driver
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited July 2020
    Bands usually create 2 or 3 masters based on the media they expect them to be played on, and during mastering they use those media to listen. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    edited July 2020
    also remember that commercial releases have been professionally mixed and then mastered again - they are set up to sound good, and sit within normal dynamic ranges.

    When you record and play live through hifi speakers, you will have a large variety of levels, and will have a far higher chance of blowing the speakers, as I have done in the past. if you overload hifi, the distortion of the top end can put huge energy into the bass/middle, and cook the voice coils in the bass/mid driver
    Yes you're right. If you drive into clipping the power spectrum of the high frequency content will significantly increase and overload the tweeters. If you keep the levels reasonably low then that shouldn't be a problem. Except you are then into the Fletcher Munson territory. However, in terms of FRFR then a hifi speakers (if they're good ones) fit the bill  as monitors don't they? By definition hifi speakers worth their salt should not produce any additional colouration of the source sound nor should any of the amplification stages. So surely they're as good as any studio monitors aren't they?  I have several pairs of good hifi speakers (Linn, B&W, ATC, Totem) so would they not suffice as passive monitors? What have I missed?

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • WonkyWonky Frets: 188
    I always check my mixes on many different speaker types after mastering, 2 different monitor speakers, 3 different car speakers and an audiophile system.  What I find is the audiophile system makes everything sound very musical and very good.  That is to say, not a revealing as the monitors, but much more listenable.  It's a blessing and a fault.  TBH the various car systems are the biggest eye openers to me and I often have to go back to mix level after them.
    So, I personally wouldn't use a Hi-Fi system for music production alone, but certainly it's a part of the process.  Use everything you have.
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  • I remember an original band I was in did a home demo of a rehearsal on a Tascam and mixed it using the summer's state of the art hifi. I wasn't there for the mix and it sounded shite as they didn't change his EQ (he was a raver and always boosted bottom end etc). I was so mad. LOL.
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    Wonky said:
    I always check my mixes on many different speaker types after mastering, 2 different monitor speakers, 3 different car speakers and an audiophile system.  What I find is the audiophile system makes everything sound very musical and very good.  That is to say, not a revealing as the monitors, but much more listenable.  It's a blessing and a fault.  TBH the various car systems are the biggest eye openers to me and I often have to go back to mix level after them.
    So, I personally wouldn't use a Hi-Fi system for music production alone, but certainly it's a part of the process.  Use everything you have.
    That's good advice. Thing is if you use an amp modeller like say a Fractal Axe 3 it has to go through a 'real' speaker at some point. That will colour sound like any other speaker, including headphones, so unless you know what the consumer is going to play the final mix on then it is guaranteed not to sound the same.

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    Generally, with about one exception, studio monitors do not make good musically satisfying hi-fi speakers.  The exception is Wilson Audio and a pair are way out of most peoples price league.  Studio monitors allow the sound engineer to really listen in to what is on the 'tape' whereas hi-fi speakers are for listening to music for enjoyment.  Logic would suggest that both objectives are the same but not so in practice.  As they say, horses for courses........
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    Rocker said:
    Generally, with about one exception, studio monitors do not make good musically satisfying hi-fi speakers.  The exception is Wilson Audio and a pair are way out of most peoples price league.  Studio monitors allow the sound engineer to really listen in to what is on the 'tape' whereas hi-fi speakers are for listening to music for enjoyment.  Logic would suggest that both objectives are the same but not so in practice.  As they say, horses for courses........
    But your perfect hi-fi speaker has a wide dynamic range and contributes as little colour as possible. That sounds like the requirements of a monitor speaker to me. Again, what am I missing?

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    A monitor and a hifi speaker can be compared by their amplitude vs freq response curves. In what way are they fundamentally different?


    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    If I understand your questions @Devil#20, I cannot tell you what the difference is but there is a difference.  I know as I had both in my music room, a top of the line pair of PMC studio monitors and, what I bought in the end, a pair of B&W 803D.  The monitors were so detailed, it spotlit everything so much that the music seemed to be bypassed in the process.  It is fair to say that the B&Ws are not 100% accurate when compared to the PMCs, but they are more pleasing to listen to.  I listen to music for enjoyment and not to hear every creak the drummer stool makes.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Rocker said:
    If I understand your questions @Devil#20, I cannot tell you what the difference is but there is a difference.  I know as I had both in my music room, a top of the line pair of PMC studio monitors and, what I bought in the end, a pair of B&W 803D.  The monitors were so detailed, it spotlit everything so much that the music seemed to be bypassed in the process.  It is fair to say that the B&Ws are not 100% accurate when compared to the PMCs, but they are more pleasing to listen to.  I listen to music for enjoyment and not to hear every creak the drummer stool makes.
    I've got Kii Three's which are marketed as both high end audiophile monitors and high end studio monitors.

    The higher end you go, the fewer differences there are.

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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    octatonic said:
    I've got Kii Three's which are marketed as both high end audiophile monitors and high end studio monitors.

    The higher end you go, the fewer differences there are.


    Congrats @Octatonic. ; Up to today I had never heard of Kii Three.  Having looked at a few online reviews, I can only be very impressed.  Serious quality actives with onboard DSP for circa €10K.

    The use of DSP has been floated about in Hi-Fi circles for the past fifteen or more years.  Some company marketed a 'box' that went between the source and the amplification way back then.  This used a microphone to listen to setup frequencies and adjusted the output to give a desired output and sound.  For some reason it simply did not catch on.  At the time I was interested but as no dealer had one to demo in my system, it did not happen.

    Your speakers look great and I have no doubt, sound great.  How does the DSP work in your room?  Is the setup more or less as on the older system described above?  Can you switch from treated to untreated sound easily?  I presume the controls are on an iPad or Smartphone App.

    Anyway, congrats on having the balls to spend what it took to get a good sound in your room.  Enjoy and maybe sometime I might get to hear a pair in action.... 


    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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