Dull/Lifeless....... Pickups?

hotpickups · October 2020

I played a mates guitar the other day. It’s a great guitar from a reputable custom builder so it’s not the guitar I can guarantee as it resonates wonderfully acoustically so I felt it must be the pickups as to why I thought it sounded a bit dull/lifeless.

Now I’ve posted before on here highlighting my feelings of these boutique type PAF pickup builders charging silly money for their pickups etc but I’m starting to believe there might be something in it. Or it could be that I’m just starting to believe the hype that flies around us all the time.

Do any of you guys swear by these high priced pickups i.e. do you really think they make a difference installing them on your guitar.

PonchoGreg · October 2020

The thing is there are quite a few pickup builders (including on this very forum) that make PAF pickups but don't ask silly money for them... If you're thinking Throbaks, ox4 etc then sure but these are really going for total accuracy re: materials etc.

Bulldog, Oil City (I've tried these two), alegree, creamery will all do a set for 150-180 quid that will sound anything but dull and lifeless. Considering you would spend the same money on a pair of dimarzio or Duncan pickups it's a bit of a no brainer.

hotpickups · October 2020

PonchoGreg said:

The thing is there are quite a few pickup builders (including on this very forum) that make PAF pickups but don't ask silly money for them... If you're thinking Throbaks, ox4 etc then sure but these are really going for total accuracy re: materials etc.

Bulldog, Oil City (I've tried these two), alegree, creamery will all do a set for 150-180 quid that will sound anything but dull and lifeless. Considering you would spend the same money on a pair of dimarzio or Duncan pickups it's a bit of a no brainer.

Are you in the same mind as me that making pickups to exact same as originals I.e. materials make absolutely no difference in sound then?

breezytele · October 2020

I used to think boutique PAFs were the way to go.

Years ago, I wasted money on one particularly ‘dead’ guitar. The upgrades, including pups, failed to lift it.

Nowadays, I think it’s the guitar as a whole that counts...

If it sounds good (harmonics, sustain) acoustically, then that is enough for me.

hotpickups · October 2020

Maybe I just prefer my pickups hot. Maybe the guitar I played were low winds / lo output etc

Sassafras · October 2020

This is when I find the volume and tone controls on the amp come in handy.

hotpickups · October 2020

Sassafras said:

This is when I find the volume and tone controls on the amp come in handy.

Well yes of course. When I plugged mine in though with the same amp settings mine sounded better imo.

PonchoGreg · October 2020

hotpickups said:

PonchoGreg said:

The thing is there are quite a few pickup builders (including on this very forum) that make PAF pickups but don't ask silly money for them... If you're thinking Throbaks, ox4 etc then sure but these are really going for total accuracy re: materials etc.

Bulldog, Oil City (I've tried these two), alegree, creamery will all do a set for 150-180 quid that will sound anything but dull and lifeless. Considering you would spend the same money on a pair of dimarzio or Duncan pickups it's a bit of a no brainer.

Are you in the same mind as me that making pickups to exact same as originals I.e. materials make absolutely no difference in sound then?

I genuinely don't want to throw shade on these guys, for the simple reason that I've never owned such faithful replicas. I did try a 335 with ox4s and it did sound fantastic. I just think that provided you have carefully made, scatterwound pickups with the right elements (magnet type, wire type and gauge, number of turns, coil offset, potting or lack thereof, etc) it must surely be diminishing returns after that.

BlueStrat · October 2020

Different guitars take the amp’s tone and volume in their own way. Worth tweaking the amp and pickup heights before dropping more money on different pickups unless you’ve decided you want something completely different from the guitar than it can currently do

PonchoGreg · October 2020

Also, the guitar might need a different humbucker type altogether. Different pickups can suit different guitars, even if said guitars sound good to start with. Case in point: I have a set of Tonerider pickups in a strat that play better to that guitar's acoustic tone than the Fender 57/62 pickups that came with it. But said 57/62 are now in another strat that's a bit darker and "bolder" to start with, and they sound great in that.

So yeah, maybe that particular guitar needs a hotter pickup to bring it to life. But if PAF is what it calls for and your mate wants, then "dull and lifeless" is the last thing I would associate with a good set of pickups in that ballpark (boutique or not)...

ICBM · October 2020

It's possible that it's not the pickups at all, but the wiring and electrics - low pot values, excessive length of shielded cable, possibly a partial short to shielding paint etc - all those things can dull the overall tone of a perfectly good pickup.

chrisj1602 · October 2020

ICBM said:

It's possible that it's not the pickups at all, but the wiring and electrics - low pot values, excessive length of shielded cable, possibly a partial short to shielding paint etc - all those things can dull the overall tone of a perfectly good pickup.

I had a Les Paul Custom with 300k volume pots, swapping them
for 500k made a noticeable difference and stopped me wanting to swap the pickups.

Roland · October 2020

ICBM said:

It's possible that it's not the pickups at all, but the wiring and electrics - low pot values, excessive length of shielded cable, possibly a partial short to shielding paint etc - all those things can dull the overall tone of a perfectly good pickup.

That’s the first thing I’d look at.

hotpickups said:

Maybe I just prefer my pickups hot. Maybe the guitar I played were low winds / lo output etc

It’s usually high wind pickups that sound over compressed and dull.

hotpickups said:
Are you in the same mind as me that making pickups to exact same as originals I.e. materials make absolutely no difference in sound then?

No. For a start older pickups will have lost some of their magnetism. You also have to consider that older pickups were far less consistent than modern versions. Lastly, small pickup manufacturers tend to experiment, and produce variants which avoid the problems of earlier designs. For example dull Telecaster neck pickups.

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Dull/Lifeless....... Pickups?

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