A bad idea or not...

rlw · October 2020

I have a 2019 Les Paul Special which is far and away my favourite guitar in terms of weight, feel, playability, tones, everything.

But....the intonation drives me potty. I've tried Mojoaxe and Faber intonated but non adjustable bridges and a Stewmac Golden Age adjustable bridge, all of which got closer than the Gibson item, but not so far as to win a banana.

I liked the tone best with the hefty (but hopeless) Gibson bridge, followed by the Stewmac. The Faber is good but the Mojoaxe and me didn't gel.

So, to the point. I guess that I could just fit a bridge and separate tailpiece using the existing bridge holes and drilling two more for the tailpiece.(Or a trusty tech could anyway). Yes or no?

And would it devalue the guitar?

ICBM · October 2020

No. Fit a Badass bridge.

I had a proper Leo Quan Badass on my original 1957 Les Paul Special, and it sounded better to me than than the (in my opinion overhyped) lightweight original tailpiece, as well as being able to intonate properly.

Fitting a separate bridge and tailpiece will also change the tone, but you won't know how until it's done and is irreversible, as well as needing the original holes filling so it will always look like a bodge.

Iamnobody · October 2020

If it’s your favourite guitar is resale value the key issue? I’d say yes it would devalue the guitar, the wrapover bridge is part of the charm or a special/junior.

One question, has the trusty tech tried to sort the intonation issues for you? I’m not saying you aren’t competent but sometimes it worth a second opinion at least?

Funkfingers · October 2020

The existing studs and threaded inserts for a wrapover bridge are the wrong distance apart for a Tune-o-Matic bridge. Filling and drilling will look fugly.

Some replacement bridge/tailpiece combinations have fully adjustable saddles and fine tuners, if you absolutely must.

HarrySeven would probably install a vibrato system.

I suppose that somebody ought to ask what string gauges you are using.

dindude · October 2020

Have you had someone check the nut end? Despite 130 years of practice Gibson still can’t cut nuts properly and this can impact intonation.

WezV · October 2020

i would try an intonatable wraparound with a similar look. absolutely no need to drill or permanently mod the guitar whcih may change the tone and will certainly devalue the guitar

Not sure what the golden age one is like, but i like pigtail or tone pros for a lightweight options that look good on a wraparound guitar. Or something from Schaller like the signum wraparound if you prefer a heavier bridge.

a badass or Schaller456 (discontinued) are both pretty hefty options which may work, but do change the look quite a bit

JayGee · October 2020

ICBM said:

No. Fit a Badass bridge.

I had a proper Leo Quan Badass on my original 1957 Les Paul Special, and it sounded better to me than than the (in my opinion overhyped) lightweight original tailpiece, as well as being able to intonate properly.

I guess there’s a reason those things became became more or less compulsory back in the ‘70s...

—
JG

Humbucked · October 2020

Badass bridge, too question this is the best unit for the job. Also, consider fitting an Earvana nut.

rlw · October 2020

OK. Thanks for the comments.

Can you still get Badass bridges? I can see them for basses but nowt else.

rlw · October 2020

These are the two that have improved matters but not enough. Maybe I've got oversensitiive ears.

StewMac

Faber - this is claimed to work straight or angled

TPWC-59NG Faber TPWC-59 Vintage Spec ALU Compensated Wraparound Tailpiece Nickel gloss

And I also have one of these but it's so light I'm not even going to try as it will be the same as the Mojoaxe which took all the oomph away

Faber - this one too is supposed to work either way

TBWC-59NG-BR Faber Vintage Spec ALU Compensated Wraparound Tailpiece Nickel gloss Intonationsleiste Messing

I did read somewhere that Gibson had moved the holes slightly on these LPs and that may not be helping either.

Funkfingers · October 2020

rlw said:

it will be the same as the Mojoaxe which took all the oomph away

I have a Mojoaxe “lightning bolt” replacement wrapover bridge on my 1965 Melody Maker. Sounds as good/bad as the original part but with the plain G being correctly intonated … unless or until I touch the short Vibrola.

rlw said:

the intonation drives me potty.

What pickups does your LP Special have and how closely are they adjusted to the strings?

ICBM · October 2020

rlw said:

These are the two that have improved matters but not enough. Maybe I've got oversensitiive ears.

StewMac

I did read somewhere that Gibson had moved the holes slightly on these LPs and that may not be helping either.

That won't matter, since you can adjust the overall position with the grub screws. Surprised you can't get this one to intonate - are any of the saddles up against the ends of the range? (Probably the top E not going far enough forward.)

Or do you mean the tone? If it's that, try the Badass or Schaller, they're heavier.

koss59 · October 2020

https://www.musiccitybridge.com/

Might be worth checking this out, designed by one of Nashville’s finest session players that is obsessed with sounding in tune.

rlw · October 2020

koss59 said:

https://www.musiccitybridge.com/

Might be worth checking this out, designed by one of Nashville’s finest session players that is obsessed with sounding in tune.

Not cheap though. Add £60+ to get it here....

rlw · October 2020

Funkfingers said:

rlw said:

it will be the same as the Mojoaxe which took all the oomph away

I have a Mojoaxe “lightning bolt” replacement wrapover bridge on my 1965 Melody Maker. Sounds as good/bad as the original part but with the plain G being correctly intonated … unless or until I touch the short Vibrola.

rlw said:

the intonation drives me potty.

What pickups does your LP Special have and how closely are they adjusted to the strings?

I tried the lightning bolt and it really took all the bottom end out of the tone. It became very mid-rich, much like an SG, and lost the boomy bottom end which I quite like now.

Gibson P90s, actually set quite low.

rlw · October 2020

ICBM said:

rlw said:

These are the two that have improved matters but not enough. Maybe I've got oversensitiive ears.

StewMac

I did read somewhere that Gibson had moved the holes slightly on these LPs and that may not be helping either.

That won't matter, since you can adjust the overall position with the grub screws. Surprised you can't get this one to intonate - are any of the saddles up against the ends of the range? (Probably the top E not going far enough forward.)

Or do you mean the tone? If it's that, try the Badass or Schaller, they're heavier.

This bridge gave me back the tone the Mojoaxe took away. It's not as bottom end heavy as the original but not far off.

The problems are that the G & B strings are both quite sharp at the 12th fret, with the A, D & G being very iffy, flat and sharp, from the 3rd to the 9th fret.

Philly_Q · October 2020

koss59 said:

https://www.musiccitybridge.com/

Might be worth checking this out, designed by one of Nashville’s finest session players that is obsessed with sounding in tune.

That's neat. Seems to be designed for genuine '50s guitars with the more extremely angled bridge though, rather than modern reissues. And it looks a bit weird.

I don't see why one of the adjustable bridges offered by TonePros, Pigtail, Schaller, Faber, ABM or Graph Tech wouldn't work. Or the StewMac one. Or indeed Badass, although I think they're ugly.

Funkfingers · October 2020

rlw said:
I tried the lightning bolt … the tone … became very mid-rich, much like an SG

This is probably exactly why the MojoAxe unit compliments the Skylark single coil in my (one pickup) Melody Maker.

ICBM · October 2020

rlw said:

The problems are that the G & B strings are both quite sharp at the 12th fret, with the A, D & G being very iffy, flat and sharp, from the 3rd to the 9th fret.

That sounds more like a nut problem - the bridge intonation doesn’t have much effect as low as the 3rd fret. Or the neck pickup is too close to the strings...

rlw · October 2020

ICBM said:

rlw said:

The problems are that the G & B strings are both quite sharp at the 12th fret, with the A, D & G being very iffy, flat and sharp, from the 3rd to the 9th fret.

That sounds more like a nut problem - the bridge intonation doesn’t have much effect as low as the 3rd fret. Or the neck pickup is too close to the strings...

I'll check.

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A bad idea or not...

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