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Comments
Poopot (3 points) - After hearing your original mix I was questioning why we needed this challenge! A decent mix, really, really good energy in the drums, my only feedback would be that one of the guitars was a little high in the mix and could do with some HP filter to get them out of the space of the vocals. I think the solo could be EQ'd and boosted to cut through the mix a little more. Great dynamic range and it never felt excessively overcompressed or pumpy.
Dainty (1 point) - A nice mix, particularly the vocals. Good levels all around and nice use of space but to my ear could use a litte more high end. Specifically the snare sounds a little muted and the horn mids are buried with only the highs cutting through. Other than that great job!
Vocals a touch low (but I felt they were quite hard to work with)
One guitar a little too loud?
Backing vocals quite low/not so distinct
Horns felt a bit wide compared to everything else (think everyone suffered from this)
Good balance overall, decent glue, "clean"
Maybe a bit reverby?
@StephenB
Guitar solo and guitars were a bit crowded (arrangement as much as anything though I think)
Horns felt a bit wide compared to everything else
A little bit overpushed dynamically?
Too reverby for me, went a bit blurry at times
Sounded finished, commercial and energetic, good
A lot of treble and bass energy, rather scooped?
Good width in the overall presentation
Liked the vocal delay around 2:40 but it needed more variation/to stop when band came in
Too pushed overall, found it quite a heavy listen despite good ideas
Rather too delay-y and reverby for my taste
@Dainty
Very mono
Liked the overall balance of instruments, worked well
Vocal (and other elements) needs a bit of a treble boost, a little lofi
Energetic but sounded like it needed a final master (not much "sparkle" somehow)
@Guitartango
Liked the "mashup" start, very nice idea
Drums/perc prominent, perc got a bit fatiguing by end
Not sure what was happening with horns and stereo effect/placement
Vocal slightly lost at times (though I think the level and delivery was quite variable so it was hard)
StephenB:
Guitars were a bit to wet for my taste but sounded decent.
horns were a tuch low in the mix.
Drums got slightly lost during the chorus.
Cant hear the BV's clearly
But overall had a fair bit of energy.
andyK;
way too much reverb all over. made it painful to listen to in the car not as bad through the monitors.
Liked the dirt on the vocal but again too much reverb for me
BV's got totally lost at times
dainty:
tight drums... punch through well throughout
vocal a little wet with reverb but not bad.
nicely widened through the chorus and solo
good balance volume wise but needs some sparkle
Oaf:
Kick a little high in the mix
nice and wide in the chorus
solo a touch quiet
the whole mix sounds a bit scooped in the mids
Guitartango:
like the mashup at the begining
guitar solo? where is it?
no bottom end at all... bass not there or very very low?
very narrow mix apart from the horns dancing left and right
the chuckachuckachuka on the percusion track could have been eq'd out.
But... Its all subjective innit? and to be fair Im sick of this track now
points wise
5pts @Dainty
3pts @oaf
1pt @StephenB
will have another one soon... with lots of tracks for you to play with
however, that was last month
i’ve been a busy boy since then and now have this:
mixed my cover challenge entry since and it’s night and day I think (or at least that’s what I’m telling the mrs to justify the spend )
That is wild! Where did you buy the acoustic panels? I'm moving into a new place soon and will have a room for a studio
Thread about the room:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/191934/music-room-help/p1
It's definitely harder to judge, than it was to mix,
I’m going to be controversial with my points.
5 points-@stephenb
3 points-@Guitartango
1 point- equally to @poopot, @Dainty, @Oaf
@poopot
Benchmark, hard to compete with.
@stephenB
Top job, I hear details can’t hear in others,
@me- mixed on i-louds, tweaked on Sennheiser HD650s, (badly ) mastered from 320mp3 with first attempt in Isotope, regretted it as soon as I heard it through Soundcloud.
@Dainty
De-ess?. Snare annoys (maybe pokes out too much)( drums were a bit difficult generally)
@Oaf
Good guitar balance,drum balance,
@Guitartango
Brave re-mix, focus on horns, just wanted it to be more competitive in volume.
My voting reflects the fact that they are all great mixes in subtly different ways, but I did appreciate the changes made by @guitartango, because it gets hard to critique equally good mixes.
I made my own mix decisions based on the ‘vibe’ of the band name, and the subject of the song, and put most of my efforts in getting the vocals to sound a bit more aggressive-they just seemed too ‘nice’ for a rock band called ’Dirty Snake Mouth’
It was fun to work on, but I have a suggestion for the next one.
Can we do it blind? Ie, all tracks get uploaded to Soundcloud at the same time- with time to judge, and maybe we could all have access to each other's mastered track, I couldn’t help have my decisions based on mixes I had already heard, which led to me trying something different based on previous mixes.
I chose to make my judging based on the Soundcloud stream, which we all know is not a great way to listen, so I listened either on laptop speakers, my phone, or headphones, but it is hard to compare after hearing the previous 2 or 3.
Look forward to the next one.
If the idea of the competition is to match an existing mix, that is one challenge.
If however, as I understood it, the challenge was to create a mix from a multitrack, there is a lot of potential for creativity.
It was my first entry to one of the forums competitions, and I enjoyed the challenge, and interpreted it as the second option.
All comments are welcome, but I think it is not really fair to be normalising things for comparison, getting the right balance here is an important part of the process- maybe one of the most important these days.
If the brief is to create a mix from the available tracks, without re-recording, which is how I interpreted it this time, there is no surprise that elements will be missing, if they do not suit the desired outcome, I think that is the creative part of production and mixing coming out.
The final mix has to be competitive on all the streaming services, which is why we have to work within some boundaries, but it can be useful to push those boundaries sometimes-to generate further excitement in the track, which may be missing.
It is hard to treat a mix as a blank slate, if that track is a well known standard, and if the object of the competition is to try and recreate an existing mix, that is a very different challenge.
The changes to the rules I suggested above are just things that I feel would make the challenge a bit simpler, without being influenced by previous mixes, and allowing the true mixes to be compared outside the Soundcloud platform, do we even know what they do to the track once it is up there?
All our mixes will be listened to on a wide variety of platforms (if they were real mixes) and that is a big consideration on the final mix.
Personally, I check my stuff through 'loudness penalty' website, and make loudness choices based on those results.
We don't all work on the same equipment, and we don't all listen in the same way, I can't do a car test for example, so there is a massive range of choices to be made with a mix, which is why I like the chance to put my own mix against others- but there is really no competition here-its all just rock n roll.
the mastering to the same level thing? That’s an entirely different challenge tbh... and a challenge we did do a while back. https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/149216/mastering-challenge-no-1#latest
For the next one I’m happy to give up the tracks for my cover entry
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/RJ6bMCz8GrqZ4ays7 a bit of reamping going on with that one
or my comp challenge entry:
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/ZFXDhVD6J4fh58vs6
Or we can wait a week or two and I may have something with a lot of tracks involved...
I'm pretty sure Soundcloud does use normalisation-just not sure how much they do it, so I think it is a fair platform for comparing mixes. All the other platforms ( at least those shown at Loudness penalty site ) vary by about 3 db, Soundcloud IS a streaming service, although they might be less fussy across tracks. They allow playlists so I would think they do some form of loudness matching-I'll have to look into it.
Fair point about not having to listen to a mix already uploaded-but I don't have a lot of self control, if it is there-I will have a listen.
Might I suggest some form of shared folder, such as G drive or dropbox, where the stems are placed, and then the final mixes are submitted, up to a cut off date, when all the mixes are posted to soundcloud. Then maybe a 2 week period for mixes to be reviewed.
This would allow time for Mixes to be downloaded and compared in our DAWs, at least then we could be comparing mixes at say 320kb MP3, or even 44k 24bit WAV, whatever standard you set.
Maybe a single rough mix is the reference on Soundcloud-as a placeholder, and the thread simply says who is in the competition, via an e-mailed link to the editable folder on Gdrive or Dropbox.
Rules can say what the competition is about, either a mix match challenge, or a creative effort.
I'm happy to wait for a good challenge whatever, it is all useful learning for me.
cheers
andy k
before the recount and full legal action...