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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    Remind we again who we have available who does bat well when the bowlers are fresh with a new ball?
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Stuckfast said:
    Remind we again who we have available who does bat well when the bowlers are fresh with a new ball?

    Jack Leach?
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    edited March 2021
    Desperately saddening to hear of the passing of Joey Benjamin, someone I grew up with and have known 39 years.

    A more kind, gentle, patient human you would never meet…….say those who knew him in the 2000’s but in the 80's and 90’s he was a fantastic fast-med bowler, skilful and brutally competitive.

    He got sacked by Warwickshire, thrown on the scrapheap and he hardly wanted to play in the Bham League, but Surrey signed him and he ended up playing for England.

    We crossed swords many times. latterly when he was pro'ing for Bromley and then Reigate, and we played together quite a few times.

    One day, we were playing for Staffordshire away and the skip and I had just played each other Old Hill v Wolves so the skip (David Banks) was driving us to the hotel and we were picking Joey up on the Hagley Rd in Brum.

    We pull up by the roadside and Joey is just standing there in his legendary denim dungarees next to a plastic Tesco bag with his 'Ian Mason' handmade bowling boots poking out the top. Banksy rolls down the window and "says where’s your kit Joey ?"

    He just pulled out a toothbrush from his top pocket and giggles- “Travelling light, man “ !!

    RIP Benji, old foe. We are all saddened and you'll be so greatly missed by all of us.





    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Sad news
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  • rocktronrocktron Frets: 806
    The Monster Bat Incident of 1771 - The Event After Which Rules Were Made on Bat Size

    https://i.imgur.com/GPrqUWr.jpg

    I was watching a video of David Warner's Gray-Nicolls "Kaboom" cricket bat, and did a search on Monster Bats. This hilarious article came up:- 

    https://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/monster-bat-incident-event-rules-bat-size



    In recent times, October 2017, the ICC changed the regulations on cricket bat size which outlawed the Monster Bats. They claim that Monster Bats were heavily weighted (?) against the bowler with too many sixes being easily hit, and they wanted to create a level playing field, so to speak.

    I think that the Monster Bats should, at least, be permitted for T20 cricket, if not test cricket. The spectators love the huge sixes. T20 is the form of the game which is ideal for these Monster Bats.

    Here are two interesting articles concerning the outlawing of the Monster Bats:-

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-02/rules-governing-cricket-bat-size-a-waste-of-time/9113018

    https://www.itsjustcricket.news/cricket-bat-size-restrictions-will-actually-make-difference/
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    edited March 2021
    They need more restrictions on the bats.  You still see mishits going for 6. That's wrong.

    40mm at the edges is still too deep.  The bats we had when I was young were nowhere near that deep.  I just measured my old bat, and it's only around 20mm.

    I've seen suggestions of a minimum press on bats, but that would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

    The great players will still hit sixes with old style bats, but it will require skill and timing.  That makes for a much better game than seeing top edges fly for six.
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    I think they should be allowed, as long as the bowlers are allowed to throw the ball (no beakers or bouncers tho)

    the whole approach to batting and equipment has changed out of all scale in the past 25 years. Whereas bowlers are still doing what they did 250 years ago (ish).

    I still fail to see why a bowler should not be able to bowl the ball by throwing 






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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    crunchman said:
    They need more restrictions on the bats.  You still see mishits going for 6. That's wrong.

    40mm at the edges is still too deep.  The bats we had when I was young were nowhere near that deep.  I just measured my old bat, and it's only around 20mm.

    I've seen suggestions of a minimum press on bats, but that would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

    The great players will still hit sixes with old style bats, but it will require skill and timing.  That makes for a much better game than seeing top edges fly for six.

    The volume of the bat makes no difference.

    Force= mass x acceleration.

    Bats are lighter these days than 25 yrs ago

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Gassage said:
    crunchman said:
    They need more restrictions on the bats.  You still see mishits going for 6. That's wrong.

    40mm at the edges is still too deep.  The bats we had when I was young were nowhere near that deep.  I just measured my old bat, and it's only around 20mm.

    I've seen suggestions of a minimum press on bats, but that would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

    The great players will still hit sixes with old style bats, but it will require skill and timing.  That makes for a much better game than seeing top edges fly for six.

    The volume of the bat makes no difference.

    Force= mass x acceleration.

    Bats are lighter these days than 25 yrs ago

    It's not as simple as that.  If a bat is thicker it will be stiffer.

    They are more lightly pressed now, so you get less mass but greater stiffness because of the greater thickness.
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    edited March 2021
    crunchman said:
    Gassage said:
    crunchman said:
    They need more restrictions on the bats.  You still see mishits going for 6. That's wrong.

    40mm at the edges is still too deep.  The bats we had when I was young were nowhere near that deep.  I just measured my old bat, and it's only around 20mm.

    I've seen suggestions of a minimum press on bats, but that would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

    The great players will still hit sixes with old style bats, but it will require skill and timing.  That makes for a much better game than seeing top edges fly for six.

    The volume of the bat makes no difference.

    Force= mass x acceleration.

    Bats are lighter these days than 25 yrs ago

    It's not as simple as that.  If a bat is thicker it will be stiffer.

    They are more lightly pressed now, so you get less mass but greater stiffness because of the greater thickness.


    Incorrect.

    Bats, especially Indian bats, are far thinner around the shoulder area than in previous times, which is where the bat will flex most. Also, many players are using long handles and short blades- the longer the handle, the less stiff the bat.

    I do agree in principle that having a stiffer handle and shoulder area will assist performance- that's why I have my bats made with super stiff thick handles and big shoulders.

    Pressing- again, totally wrong- good pressing is optimised to the cleft in question - pressing a bat lightly will have a negative effect- in simple terms, if the bat is pressed lightly,, the surface will fail plastically. If there's dents from ball impact, then that means energy is being absorbed into the face of the bat. You want to to fail elastically, via case hardening, which means pressing well. If you overpress you'll delaminate the bat face from the bat structure in time.

    The reason you can get bigger light bats is the drying process, not the pressing.

    The real differences are:

    1. Willow is far more regular in growth time and grain structure now and there's a greater supply of good willow as there's more produced.
    2. Controlled moisture content via dehumidified kiln drying- people have learned that handles and blades need different moisture content and that 10 per cent in a pro bat or 12 percent in a shop bat is the optimum, with handles at 8%
    3. Better knowledge of shapes- as a simple example, you'll rarely see a top class pro using a bat with a low middle. The key part of the shape of the bat is getting the middle as high and deep as possible under the centre of gravity of the bat.
    4. Players train to hit the ball - range hitting
    5. Players are a lot stronger than they were even 20 yrs ago.
    6. Balls are harder, esp in whiteball when there's 2 balls.
    7. Faces are pressed MUCH flatter which also aids the optical illusion of greater volume (and gives a thicker edge, admittedly)- it also means players hit straighter generally when playing straight bat shots.

    Whichever way you cut it, if swung at the same velocity and assuming similar handle and willow characteristics, a bat of 3lbs from 1985 will hit the ball further than a bat of 2.10 in the modern era- that is simple, basic physics.


    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    The pressing is important.  Modern bats are not pressed as much as bats from years ago.  In times past, they were definitely pressed more to give more durability.  I've read that several places.  Now they are pressed to give optimum power at the expense of durability.

    I think I remember reading that Denis Compton used the same bat for the whole season in 1947, when he set the record for the number of runs in a year.  Modern bats just do not last that long.  Google tells me that David Warner went through 47 bats in a season.

    This picture shows how ridiculous things got:


    That's Barry Richards with the bat he used to scored 325 in a day, compared with one of David Warner's bats.  That particular bat of Warner's wouldn't be allowed now, but the bats that are allowed now are still far too big.

    Doing some searching, I've discovered that the edges of the average professional's bat in 1980 were 18mm.  They are still allowing 40mm now.  That's twice as much.  The obvious thing to do is to restrict that further - along with some kind of restriction on the maximum depth.  Those old bats were nothing like 67mm deep.

    The balance at the moment is still wrong.  You still see top edges and mishits going for six on a regular basis, which just isn't right.  Regulating a minimum press would be impossible, so all you can do is restrict the size.
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    I'd have thought the main reason mishits go for six is that big grounds usually bring the boundaries in for T20 matches.

    Top edges going for six is nothing new.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    edited March 2021

    Modern bats are way more forgiving. It's like comparing persimmon drivers to modern graphite huge sweet spot drivers. No comparison at all. 

    And yes it's easier to hit sixes. Better technique, stronger players, shorter boundaries, and equipment that makes it easier to hit sixes. And that's the bottom line, equipment that makes it easier to do things. 

    So let's just enjoy Imran smoking Greg Thomas instead. A proper six  yes it's in the right spot when you press play. Just give it a minute. 





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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14036
    tFB Trader
    Just an additional story on the big bats - Recall Graham Gooch getting 333 + against India - He said later that he should have changed to a lighter bat, towards the end of the day/innings as he knew he was getting tired

    So a question for any of you - Do the likes of Kohli, Kane Williamson + others who play 20/20 ODI and Test Match at a high level, do they use a different size/weight/depth bat for test cricket, with a view to 'stroking' the ball thru' the covers as against needing the power for 20/20 and ODI - Maybe the likes of Pant don't as they have that constant 'attack' mode regardless
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    Just an additional story on the big bats - Recall Graham Gooch getting 333 + against India - He said later that he should have changed to a lighter bat, towards the end of the day/innings as he knew he was getting tired

    So a question for any of you - Do the likes of Kohli, Kane Williamson + others who play 20/20 ODI and Test Match at a high level, do they use a different size/weight/depth bat for test cricket, with a view to 'stroking' the ball thru' the covers as against needing the power for 20/20 and ODI - Maybe the likes of Pant don't as they have that constant 'attack' mode regardless

    Some do, some don't.

    Kohli is 2.10, Kane is 2.8- Kane likes precisely 10% moisture, 12 grains. Kane uses the same....

    More often they'll go from light to heavy though.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    crunchman said:
    The pressing is important.  Modern bats are not pressed as much as bats from years ago.  In times past, they were definitely pressed more to give more durability.  I've read that several places.  Now they are pressed to give optimum power at the expense of durability.

    I think I remember reading that Denis Compton used the same bat for the whole season in 1947, when he set the record for the number of runs in a year.  Modern bats just do not last that long.  Google tells me that David Warner went through 47 bats in a season.


    Warner demands 20 pairs of gloves per test and new boots for each one. He is, apparently, a complete a-hole to the bat companies and most of those bats will be down to him going through them until he scores runs with one and suddenly decides he likes it. Also, he's using Spartan at the moment, who don't make bats and use a load of subbies and it's pretty much pot luck.

    crunchman said:

    That's Barry Richards with the bat he used to scored 325 in a day, compared with one of David Warner's bats.  That particular bat of Warner's wouldn't be allowed now, but the bats that are allowed now are still far too big.


    Again, volume makes little difference. Weight does. 



    Doing some searching, I've discovered that the edges of the average professional's bat in 1980 were 18mm.  They are still allowing 40mm now.  That's twice as much.  The obvious thing to do is to restrict that further - along with some kind of restriction on the maximum depth.  Those old bats were nothing like 67mm deep.


    The biggest reason for that is the face pressing. If you press the face convex, as in days of old versus pressing flat, as now, the edge of the bat is no longer rolled, so whilst the edge appears thicker, the depth of the bat isn't as significantly bigger.


    The balance at the moment is still wrong.  You still see top edges and mishits going for six on a regular basis, which just isn't right.  Regulating a minimum press would be impossible, so all you can do is restrict the size.
    That has far more to do with the power, intent and speed of swing that the actual bat.

    In a simple observation, if, as you are convinced, the bat is pressed softer, what will happen when the ball hits the edge (which is an angle)? In basic terms the edge will deform and dent. That means it's absorbed, not transferred energy.

    Bats are not pressed very differently at all (as an e.g. Grays and GM still use 70 yr old manual presses- all that's changed is the press roller which shapes the face flatter) but what has changed is that the willow is grown better with more consistent grain structure and growing times without false growth years.

    What has changed is that good bats are easier for the public to get hold of due to the improved growing and drying processes.

    A super big bat like Warner's is a myth in terms of how it improves your performance. Firstly, it's harder to swing fast due to air resistance and also there is less accuracy. 

    Lastly, the big bat/soft press thing- Imagine a grade 50c tool steel hammer head weighing 2lbs, and a pillow with an aluminium case also weighing 2lbs?

    Which will hit a nail harder? Which could you swing more accurately? Which could you swing faster? The answers to those questions are obvious.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    be interesting to model the air resistance Dom Sibley faces with his all over the place pickup compared to us normal humans. 



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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    "Why can't our spinners bowl more maidens?"

    Rashid Khan is currently the top T20 bowler in the world and his career bowling stats across all three formats are ridiculous. 

    https://i.imgur.com/XwoG0n6.png


    Afghanistan are battering Zimbabwe right now. After 545-5 declared, they bowled Zimbabwe out for 287. Rashid took 4 for 138 from 36.3 overs. 3 maidens in total out of all of that. When a dude with stats like him ain't bowling maiden after maiden despite bowling on a turning track at home against Zimbabwe, then it does point to batsmen being more able to rotate strike (well, non-English batsmen anyhow) and thus stopping the maiden over from happening. 





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  • rocktronrocktron Frets: 806
    edited March 2021
    To the fine gentlemen who responded to the subject of Monster Bats:

    I enjoyed reading your posts very much.

    I have an old, unused Duncan Fearnley Size H bat (I use a Size SH bat, but I got this one cheaply), which is very light and beautifully balanced. Its pick-up is as light as a feather - great for playing air cover drives in my living room. LOL 

    I found two Monster Bats available from www.cjicricket.com:-  

    1. CJI Fatso F500 Limited Edition
    2. CJI Sumo Trojan Limited Edition 

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LATEST-CJI-FATSO-F500-LIMITED-EDITION-RED-Full-Size-weight-3lb-12ozs-Extras/173762550584?hash=item28750e1b38:g:0bwAAOSwWrNcTGKW

    There is/was even one weighing in at 4lbs. These are clearly intended for training purposes only, or for attacking burglars.

    I am tempted to get a lighter, but maximum thickness one, before they disappear forever. Future generations would be amazed at their size!!!

    PS: That picture of Barry Richards holding a Gray-Nicolls "Kaboom" bat is just awesome.
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