All laminate Vs solid top

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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    If you think about how an acoustic guitar top works, it's like a speaker cone.
    It needs to be able to change shape as it vibrates, it's not like a piston speaker driver, although some makers try to reduce the coupling of the bracing near the edge of the top to get a bit more overall movement.

    Studies have been done on how the tops vibrate, and they have several frequency modes going on at the same time
    this video has an exaggerated view of this:


    to influence these modes and vibration patterns, makers plane some parts of the top to be thinner, and use different bracing patterns, and shave some parts of the bracing away, to fine-tune the vibration characteristics

    Historically, luthiers have developed these techniques with solid wood tops. They will know what works and what doesn't.
    It's not impossible to use these approaches with laminate, but the characteristics of laminate will be different, and also I doubt you could plane it in the same way - you'd hit glue layers I assume. 
    I'd guess that if a luthier had developed these skills from studying experts and experience, all with solid woods, then it would be a case of "starting over" if you tried to do this with laminate.

    I would think that the manual effort and time spent on tweaking tops and bracing on "boutique" level acoustics would cost so much that the cost saving on using laminate would be trivial in comparison

    Mass-Production line guitars would not have this kind of fine-tuning, and could be made with solid or laminate

    I'd guess that some laminate might have good characteristics for vibration, but it would require effort and cost to source it and maintain consistency. It's possible that someone might come up with a design that uses laminate that sounds excellent.

    In fact, there is a thing in classical guitars called the nomex double top, which is a 3 layer construction. It's much stronger, and the bracing can be reduced. Lattice bracing is possible (Not crystal lattice! ;-) )


    I've got one of these, and have tried a steel-strung one, very impressive.

    It might be possible to achieve something similar with laminate woods, I wonder if anyone has tried
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    However, with cheap guitars I would work on the assumption that laminate tops would be very hit and miss, and that solid tops made in China with decent QC would be more predictable
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    Zonular said:
    Hey guys, after a bit of research I've discovered my steel string acoustic I've had for close to 20 years is a all laminate construction, it sounds good to me.

    Im shopping around for a parlour guitar, for some fingerpicking blues.im looking to keep it under 200 quid if possible

    From your wealth of experience, how much difference would I hear between cheaper all laminate parlour Vs a cheaper solid wood like a Harley Benton? 


    and to answer your question directly:
    I think Thomann have very good prices for their far-east-made guitars, I think a £200 Harley Benton would be £300-£350 with a different name on the headstock. QC is generally good, and they will sort things out when things go wrong.

    However, with acoustics, trying one out is the best thing

    Most Parlour guitars I have tried sound incredibly boxy, so definitely worth trying out, unless that's the sound you want. You usually need to pay more to get non-boxy-sounding ones

    I'd say that choosing a parlour model over a normal small or grand-auditorium size would probably have at least as much effect on the sound quality as different brands or use of laminates at that price level.

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  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1648
    If you think about how an acoustic guitar top works, it's like a speaker cone.
    It needs to be able to change shape as it vibrates, it's not like a piston speaker driver, although some makers try to reduce the coupling of the bracing near the edge of the top to get a bit more overall movement.

    Studies have been done on how the tops vibrate, and they have several frequency modes going on at the same time
    this video has an exaggerated view of this:


    to influence these modes and vibration patterns, makers plane some parts of the top to be thinner, and use different bracing patterns, and shave some parts of the bracing away, to fine-tune the vibration characteristics

    Historically, luthiers have developed these techniques with solid wood tops. They will know what works and what doesn't.
    It's not impossible to use these approaches with laminate, but the characteristics of laminate will be different, and also I doubt you could plane it in the same way - you'd hit glue layers I assume. 
    I'd guess that if a luthier had developed these skills from studying experts and experience, all with solid woods, then it would be a case of "starting over" if you tried to do this with laminate.

    I would think that the manual effort and time spent on tweaking tops and bracing on "boutique" level acoustics would cost so much that the cost saving on using laminate would be trivial in comparison

    Mass-Production line guitars would not have this kind of fine-tuning, and could be made with solid or laminate

    I'd guess that some laminate might have good characteristics for vibration, but it would require effort and cost to source it and maintain consistency. It's possible that someone might come up with a design that uses laminate that sounds excellent.

    In fact, there is a thing in classical guitars called the nomex double top, which is a 3 layer construction. It's much stronger, and the bracing can be reduced. Lattice bracing is possible (Not crystal lattice! ;-) )


    I've got one of these, and have tried a steel-strung one, very impressive.

    It might be possible to achieve something similar with laminate woods, I wonder if anyone has tried


    Eastman sell 'Double Top' acoustics with a similar lattice. I've never played one, but have heard good things. 
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  • I bought my Sigma DR28H back in 1988, Laminate back and sides and solid top. Been a wonderful guitar and to me sounded a lot better than guitars twice the price. 
    It’s the one guitar I would grab if house was on fire, despite not being able to play it due to my hands being so bad and it’s such a skinny v neck. 
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  • Balrog68Balrog68 Frets: 100
    Gretsch Jim Dandy or Fender CP60 ... I've had both, both very good and within your budget. 
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  • ZonularZonular Frets: 62
    Balrog68 said:
    Gretsch Jim Dandy or Fender CP60 ... I've had both, both very good and within your budget. 
    Out of interest, which is the better buy?
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 888
    The Fender CP60 is a real piece of junk in my opinion. Can’t speak for the Gretsch but I’d put my lunch money on the Vintage Paul Brett Statesboro being far better, it’s a pretty decent guitar. it’s built better because there was actually input regarding its construction from a guy who understands guitars. It’s light and dynamic. Also cheap. Almost theft

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  • ZonularZonular Frets: 62
    In between starting this thread and now, I actually pulled the trigger on the Harley Benton clp15, sadly on back order, last night my dog had a surprise visit to the vet (he's ok) so cancelled the back order
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  • ZonularZonular Frets: 62
    Update. Picked up a s/h recording king dirty thirty. Great fun 
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