Bands with keys...

Freebird · May 2021

slacker said:

I take the mono synthesis comments. They bought a real keyboard later. The point was that they started from playing one finger not grade 8 piano.

I played in bands with classically trained pianists and all but one were useless in a band.

I made that cheeky little comment for a reason, some of my favourite bands feature single note keyboard lines which work well with guitar based music. Love Will Tear Us Apart is a great example, as are most things by the Cure (e.g. the piano in Just Like Heaven). Sometimes, when I am feeling extravagant, I will add a 3rd or a 5th to a root note

slacker · May 2021

Play a 7th I dare you.

Freebird · May 2021

slacker said:

Play a 7th I dare you.

I think that's a step too far! But maybe ok on pads

p90fool · May 2021

slacker said:

I take the mono synthesis comments. They bought a real keyboard later. The point was that they started from playing one finger not grade 8 piano.

I played in bands with classically trained pianists and all but one were useless in a band.

Same here, and I honestly thought they'd know more theory than me, but all I get when I say "It's not a straight D, it's a Dmaj7" is "That's a guitar chord".

The point is that classically trained pianists have the facility to play in bands but they usually just don't know what to do.

It's pretty obvious that Jon Lord could play pretty much anything, but when he played simple 5th/root diads in unison with Ritchie Blackmore it was immensely powerful.

Roland · May 2021

This discussion emphasises how much of a difference there is between ability to play an instrument and ability to play in a band.

Most of us prefer 1:1 lessons to group teaching. I once watched two primary school children, one on guitar and the other on cornet. Different instruments, notated in different keys. Each of them was a few months into learning, and could play half a dozen chords/notes. Yet, because they’d each been taught in groups, they could play perfectly together. Their focus was on each other’s sound and timing, not on their own fingering.

thecolourbox · May 2021

p90fool said:

slacker said:

I take the mono synthesis comments. They bought a real keyboard later. The point was that they started from playing one finger not grade 8 piano.

I played in bands with classically trained pianists and all but one were useless in a band.

Same here, and I honestly thought they'd know more theory than me, but all I get when I say "It's not a straight D, it's a Dmaj7" is "That's a guitar chord".

The point is that classically trained pianists have the facility to play in bands but they usually just don't know what to do.

As always that depends very much on the classically trained pianist in question - most people who learn the piano don't bother learning theory and therefore are lazy when they dismiss things as a guitar chord. They think they are being snobby or whatever but they are actually being lazy.

I'm a classically trained pianist and I would be embarrassed to hear anybody say that

Danny1969 · May 2021

I generally find the keys players I work with are very good at altered chords, inversions and slash chords. I expanded my chord vocabulary by watching one of them and the cool voicing he got on some changes.

Regarding the left hand thing, the trick there is to brutally high pass the keys, 200Hz sometimes if needed. But roll it down if the keys start anything on their own, otherwise sounds a bit thin. Once the band all come in roll it back up. I use my left hand all the time as well as it kind of helps me get the right feel.

TheBigDipper · May 2021

p90fool said:

slacker said:

I take the mono synthesis comments. They bought a real keyboard later. The point was that they started from playing one finger not grade 8 piano.

I played in bands with classically trained pianists and all but one were useless in a band.

Same here, and I honestly thought they'd know more theory than me, but all I get when I say "It's not a straight D, it's a Dmaj7" is "That's a guitar chord".

The point is that classically trained pianists have the facility to play in bands but they usually just don't know what to do.

It's pretty obvious that Jon Lord could play pretty much anything, but when he played simple 5th/root diads in unison with Ritchie Blackmore it was immensely powerful.

They might know more theory than you about their own particular field, but not the theory they need to communicate effectively with you in a band context. I can't believe a jazz pianist would call Dmaj7 a guitar chord. Not that I know any! They use chord charts just like anyone else in that field, don't they?

paulmapp8306 · May 2021

Dont think Ive ever used a chord chart personally, and if I did it was very early on learning guitar. Certainly dont use them as a keys player.

If you know how chords are made up - on a theoretical level, and know what fret/string/key produced what note - theres no need for them on keys. The point I think in that example - is the keys player was either lazy - or didn't actually know any theory.

TheBigDipper · May 2021

paulmapp8306 said:

Dont think Ive ever used a chord chart personally, and if I did it was very early on learning guitar. Certainly dont use them as a keys player.

If you know how chords are made up - on a theoretical level, and know what fret/string/key produced what note - theres no need for them on keys. The point I think in that example - is the keys player was either lazy - or didn't actually know any theory.

Apologies to the OP for the temporary hijack.

I was meaning the sort of chord chart that you'd find in something like The Real Book, a sequence of chord names showing the chord progression underneath a tune. I didn't mean the boxes showing frets, strings and fingerings that you get in some guitar song sheets. I've never played with a jazz pianist, but I assumed they'd use something like that as a basis for comping over a jazz standard - rather than reading the score - if there even was one to read available.

thecolourbox · May 2021

TheBigDipper said:

paulmapp8306 said:

Dont think Ive ever used a chord chart personally, and if I did it was very early on learning guitar. Certainly dont use them as a keys player.

If you know how chords are made up - on a theoretical level, and know what fret/string/key produced what note - theres no need for them on keys. The point I think in that example - is the keys player was either lazy - or didn't actually know any theory.

Apologies to the OP for the temporary hijack.

I was meaning the sort of chord chart that you'd find in something like The Real Book, a sequence of chord names showing the chord progression underneath a tune. I didn't mean the boxes showing frets, strings and fingerings that you get in some guitar song sheets. I've never played with a jazz pianist, but I assumed they'd use something like that as a basis for comping over a jazz standard - rather than reading the score - if there even was one to read available.

Yes that's usually how I would do it, unless I already had an idea by ear

paulmapp8306 · May 2021

I get you.

Tbh, I dont use those either lol. I work stuff out by ear .. but yeh. Theory dorsnt help you there

thecolourbox · May 2021

paulmapp8306 said:

I get you.

Tbh, I dont use those either lol. I work stuff out by ear .. but yeh. Theory dorsnt help you there

I don't think I could play by ear without knowing the theory I do though, to be fair!

TeleMaster · May 2021

Thanks for the replies guys. Interesting derail, no worries there chat away

I think I've got some food for thought and have discussed with the potential person. He doesn't have a workstation, but if he's good enough perhaps we can see how it goes.

Freebird · May 2021

I've always thought Christine McVie was good at the playing keys in a band thing, and she had some classical training.

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