Shoulder impingement…

skunkwerx · July 2021

Anyone had it?

My right shoulder is fucked. Noticed about 8 weeks ago pain when drawing my bow back.

My neck is brutally fucked too, stiff, clicks, cracks and crunches in all directions, aches and can get real painful. Havent done much on the neck yet mind.

My bow’s 32lbs on my fingers so nothing mental.

Now when shooting, after about 3 arrows the pain goes. But lately I’ve given shooting a rest as the pain and weakness is worse, and no doubt shooting is probably damaging it more.

Most things involving my arm being to the front of me are ok, but things at arms length or if my arm is out to the side, or high, then no chance, its like there is no strength whatsoever in those positions, and a bit of pain obviously.

My GP is next to useless, and theyre still only doing telephone consultations which are a wait of 4-5 weeks anyway. I figured they would just refer me to a few group sessions of physio like they did before for something, which took over a year to actually get referred to. Useless.

So I havent bothered with that yet.

Went to a private physio last week but tbh I’m not feeling an awful lot of relief.

The physio diagnosed it as an impingement.

Gave me various exercises to do. Did some ultrasound massage.

A week later its the same though.

Ok I did slack of the exercises at home a little.

I also sleep on my right side which I guess might not help it.

Second session he did more ultrasound and a bit of massaging, but this time busted out the fucking acupuncture needles.

Stuck several of those in my shoulder which wasnt great fun.. and tbh I’m skeptical about shit like that anyway.

I’m cool with needles, but unless there is hard scientific evidence then I just don’t like wasting my time and paying to get sharp things stuck in me. You know?

I checked the Nhs and NICE websites and yeah no evidence to support it is anyway effective for anything other than headaches.

I guess I’ll keep an open mind but 2 days later and its made pish all difference anyway.

Guess i’m just feeling miserable with it lately.

I’m sure it will improve, well I hope so, but you know.

fastonebaz · July 2021

Sounds a bit like a torn rotator cuff.

poopot · July 2021

skunkwerx said:

Anyone had it?

Nope… but I do have “adhesive capsulitis” or frozen shoulder. The symptoms you’ve listed are exactly what I had at the start of it all… back in June 2019!!!!!!! It’s still going

starts off hurting when you make certain movements with your arm, then the joint starts to freeze (but still hurts), then the pain goes away leaving the lack of mobility and weakness and finally it unfreezes… two years in and it’s just starting to unlock.

three mri scans and two guided injections did nowt to help.

I’d ask for a second opinion just to rule that out…

scrumhalf · July 2021

I had impingement some years ago. It doesn't sound as severe as yours. It took a couple of months of weekly physio sessions to cure it.

skunkwerx · July 2021

Cheers all. Yeah I fear its a torn rotator cuff too.

That would be bad as it seems like the type of thing that is only fixed by surgery, and only if its bad enough..

Otherwise as it wont heal on its own it becomes just a matter of doing exercises and taking painkillers which aint great as I need this shoulder for my hobby soon as.

I get the feeling it will be years on a waiting list

I’ll call my GP later and get the ball rolling though.

Perhaps they can remove the shoulders weak human tendons and joint, and replace with a titanium and pneumatic job. I will be more machine then than man. Twisted, and evil.

skunkwerx · July 2021

scrumhalf said:

I had impingement some years ago. It doesn't sound as severe as yours. It took a couple of months of weekly physio sessions to cure it.

Ah thats hopeful!

It is likely I’m expecting results too soon and worrying unduly.. wouldnt surprise me haha.

Longtallronnie · July 2021

Yep, I’ve had it - with physio, recommended exercises and generally trying not to use the affected arm, it took about 12 months to get better. At its worst, I couldn’t pick up a pint with my injured arm without severe pain. I also couldn’t play guitar for more than ten minutes before it hurt too much.

The exercises I was given were very gentle with a very small range of movement. It was bloody frustrating and for a while it felt like it wasn’t getting better but eventually got there.

Stick with your recovery plan and try and stay patient - hopefully you’ll be on the mend soon enough.

crunchman · July 2021

I had problems with my shoulder a few years ago. Once it got sore I took it easy and didn't do much with it because it hurt. An osteopath I saw told me that I needed to use it as much as possible. WIth a bit of treatment from him, plus starting to move it around and exercise it, it got better quite quickly.

That's obviously different advice than @Longtallronnie got. The correct course of action will depend on the nature of what is wrong.

The other thing I would say is about exercise in general. Is archery the only thing you do? My back and shoulders got a lot better when I joined a gym. Having the muscles in good shape, and doing a range of movements with them, will probably help you a lot when the current problem is better.

fretmeister · July 2021

Push for an MRI.

I had similar symptoms and it turned out to be a nerve getting squeezed in my neck, rather than the shoulder itself. But if they scan neck and shoulder you'll at least find out if it is a rotator cuff issue.

strumjoughlamps · July 2021

My Wife has a torn rotator cuff, it took weeks/months of back and forth between gp,physio and hospital for it to come to that and many times the wife in tears with pain.

she has now had injections and on tabs to which is helping.

WiresDreamDisasters · July 2021

It really is amazing how shit healthcare professionals can be sometimes.

skunkwerx · July 2021

WiresDreamDisasters said:

It really is amazing how shit healthcare professionals can be sometimes.

Yup. Around here, if its properly life threatening I know they can be pretty damn good, and fast.

Anything else though you’re pretty much screwed lol.

skunkwerx · July 2021

crunchman said:

I had problems with my shoulder a few years ago. Once it got sore I took it easy and didn't do much with it because it hurt. An osteopath I saw told me that I needed to use it as much as possible. WIth a bit of treatment from him, plus starting to move it around and exercise it, it got better quite quickly.

That's obviously different advice than @Longtallronnie got. The correct course of action will depend on the nature of what is wrong.

The other thing I would say is about exercise in general. Is archery the only thing you do? My back and shoulders got a lot better when I joined a gym. Having the muscles in good shape, and doing a range of movements with them, will probably help you a lot when the current problem is better.

Yeah it is pretty much the only physical thing I do. Guitar as well but guess thats quite different.

I’ll ask the physio Monday what his views on continuing to shoot are. He did say to stop doing one of the exercises because it was painful at a certain point of the movement.. so I would guess he would say not to shoot.

But yeah I’ve also read that keeping the arm and shoulder moving ‘as normal’ without doing anything strenuous is recommended.

Frustratingly as I shoot a modern recurve bow, you can make adjustments and alter the poundage lower or higher.. but the set up I’ve recently bought is already set at its lowest lol.. had the idea I could increase it in a few months time.

Buggar!

Vibetronic · July 2021

It's a bugger. I had a frozen shoulder about 2 years ago - heavy painkillers, then steroid injection + physio sorted it. My first covid jab it made it flare up again - local inflammation according to the GP, so I now have what you have...luckily not frozen again, just impingement which is really bloody uncomfortable. Got a (phone) NHS physio appointment next week which took about 6-8 weeks to come through and the option of another steroid injection in 4 weeks time if it's not much better.

For the frozen shoulder I went to a private physio which is worth doing if you're in a lot of pain; it can really help.

octatonic · July 2021

I can sympathise entirely.

I had shoulder decompressions in 2011 and 2012.
Since then I've had no issues at all- get it checked and consider surgery if it is recommended.
Made all the difference to me.

Blaendulais · July 2021

MRI is the key diagnostic. It will reveal whether the main problem is inflammation (tendinitis or frozen shoulder) or a tear. Most people over 30/40 have cuff tears on an MRI so their significance is often uncertain. They usually respond to physio. The current best treatment evidence for frozen shoulder is intracapsular ultrasound guided injection which relieves inflammation and breaks down adhesions. It massively speeds recovery.

Decompression is not so much in vogue over the last few years as studies show poor outcomes.

GPs seem unkeen to order MRIs directly so another option is get a private one. It will give you a diagnosis.

My frozen shoulder was agony for months i must admit

Blaendulais · July 2021

fretmeister said:

Push for an MRI.

I had similar symptoms and it turned out to be a nerve getting squeezed in my neck, rather than the shoulder itself. But if they scan neck and shoulder you'll at least find out if it is a rotator cuff issue.

Push instead for a clinical examination. It will determine whether its neck or shoulder then push for an MRI. Dont have an unnecessary investigation it will serve only to expose you to unnecessary risk as they often find irrelevant incidental findings

GavRichList · July 2021

I had something very similar last year, and it turned out to actually be my neck. a compressed nerve at the bottom of it, specifically. My GP too had been awful - banged an injection into my shoulder which was a) unpleasant and b) useless. They then had me riding codeine for months as symptoms got worse, and whilst a good time can be had on opiates, it's no way to live for the medium to long term. I ended up with weakening in my arm, pins and needles in and around my elbow and a deterioration in sensation in two of my fingers.

Finally I requested a hospital physio referral, and to their credit they nailed it. It took a while to go, but repeated neck exercises (full capacity stretches left and right, and leaning your head side to side, again to full capacity) throughout the day (as many as you can) coupled with taking up running got rid of it. Sadly, you have to keep these up though - the neck stretches only of a morning, but I have to keep running. If I have more than a week off, I feel it all getting achey again.

Alterlifeson · July 2021

skunkwerx said:

Second session he did more ultrasound and a bit of massaging, but this time busted out the fucking acupuncture needles.

Stuck several of those in my shoulder which wasnt great fun.. and tbh I’m skeptical about shit like that anyway.

I’m cool with needles, but unless there is hard scientific evidence then I just don’t like wasting my time and paying to get sharp things stuck in me. You know?

I checked the Nhs and NICE websites and yeah no evidence to support it is anyway effective for anything other than headaches.

These were likely acupuncture needles but used for another type of muscle relaxation therapy. I have a shoulder that gives me grief from an old sports injury. Occasionally I will reinjure it by overworking (or underworking!) and I see a private physio who uses this technique on me.

The needle basically discharges any built up electrical tension that can cause muscle to contract. It gives me instant and lasting relief as long as I keep up with the stretches and exercises he gives to religiously. When the needles hit a built up spot it almost feels like a small electric shock, you can feel the tension release from the fibre.

Very odd but I like it!

GavRichList · July 2021

C8 Nerve compression to be specific:

Common Symptoms and Signs Stemming from C7-T1

A vertebral, rib, and/or disc injury at the C7-T1 level may cause moderate to severe neck pain and/or upper back pain. Sometimes, there may be difficulty in breathing if the first rib or rib muscles are injured.

If the C8 nerve is compressed or irritated, additional symptoms may occur, such as:

Pain in parts of the shoulder, forearm, hand, and/or little finger.
Numbness in the forearm and/or hand
Weakness in the wrist, hand, and/or fingers.

If the spinal cord is injured, the upper and/or lower limbs and the torso may be completely or partially paralyzed.2 There may also be changes in bowel and/or bladder functions.

Nonsurgical treatments are usually tried first to treat CTJ injuries. In cases where instability of the CTJ occurs or when nonsurgical treatments do not provide relief, surgery may be considered.

See Treatment for Neck Pain

https://www.spine-health.com/conditions/spine-anatomy/all-about-c7-t1-spinal-segment-cervicothoracic-junction

musteatbrain · July 2021

Took me 3 years to fix mine. It was caused by a weak back. I needed to do a lot of work to develop the muscle to pull things back in to position. Guitar playing and a desk job left my white round shouldered. I also worked a lot on external shoulder rotation strength. This eventually moved the resting position of my shoulder a bit and stopped the wear and tear occurring at the same point. That gave things the best chance to heal.

unless it’s totally ripped I’d avoid surgery. I know 11 people in total with reconstructed shoulders. (CrossFitters obviously….) They are never the same.

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Common Symptoms and Signs Stemming from C7-T1