Windows 11 is dog shit

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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 8203
    Emp_Fab said:
    Why this need (other than commercial) to keep releasing new operating systems?  It's like the clothes wash situation - whites, whiter than white!  Super-duper-ultra-brilliant whites....  Piss off....  Give us an OS that works and invest in keeping it secure and updated.  And stop dicking about with the GUI!!
    Let's go back to DOS?
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  • Why does Apple never get the shit that Windows gets?

    Apple have made these ridiculous security changes over the last few versions of OSX that have been an absolute fucking ballache to deal with when it comes to creating and releasing software.

    If Microsoft had done half of the gatekeeping enforcement bullshit that Apple have done since Mojave, they'd be dragged across the coals. But Apple get a pass.... presumably "coz shiny!!!!"

    Bye!

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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 6965
    edited October 14
    Why does Apple never get the shit that Windows gets?

    Apple have made these ridiculous security changes over the last few versions of OSX that have been an absolute fucking ballache to deal with when it comes to creating and releasing software.

    If Microsoft had done half of the gatekeeping enforcement bullshit that Apple have done since Mojave, they'd be dragged across the coals. But Apple get a pass.... presumably "coz shiny!!!!"
    Yes that does seem to be the case. I had a Mac Mini once and it was such a painful user experience. I'm not an IT whizz by any stretch though I generally know how to use stuff, whereas the technical things fly over my head. But it was constantly updating every time I switched it on, the file explorer thing was woeful, stuff didn't "just work" like all the marketing nonsense, and it felt like everything on a superficial non-technical level that annoys me about Windows annoyed me much more on the Mac. Mentioning this usually provokes Apple fans to get very upset.

    Windows does irritate me, don't get me wrong, but I think that's just an inherent level of annoyance at IT and is most likely due in part to my lack of knowledge and my user error. 

    My laptop is getting on a bit and was a bad purchase in the first place, so whilst I very much do need to work out a better replacement system I lack the confidence to find a suitable machine given how badly it has gone in the past. A bit like the thing of knowing the difference between a £500 machine and a £200 machine that's overpriced by £300. Also then having to contend with a new OS whether that's W11 or whatever Apple are on these days doesn't exactly fill me with joy so I'm just making sure all my files are multiple backed up so when my laptop explodes I'm still ok
    www.pianomatt.co.uk - Wedding and Event Pianist in the West Midlands
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 8105
    I bought a MacBook Pro once to run Logic.  Never again.

    It didn't "just work" either.  With the help of a friend who does know Apple stuf, and had been using Apple for years, we had to spend about 20 minutes faffing around figuring out why my audio interface wasn't working, until we found some obscure tickbox setting in Logic.
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  • mudslide73mudslide73 Frets: 2391
    I've had a few days with it now (admittedly running in Hyper-V) and it's the same as 10 basically. My GPs and remote deployment stuff appears to work as normal. It's white now rather than blue also. 
    "A city star won’t shine too far"


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  • Why does Apple never get the shit that Windows gets?

    Apple have made these ridiculous security changes over the last few versions of OSX that have been an absolute fucking ballache to deal with when it comes to creating and releasing software.

    If Microsoft had done half of the gatekeeping enforcement bullshit that Apple have done since Mojave, they'd be dragged across the coals. But Apple get a pass.... presumably "coz shiny!!!!"
    Yes that does seem to be the case. I had a Mac Mini once and it was such a painful user experience. I'm not an IT whizz by any stretch though I generally know how to use stuff, whereas the technical things fly over my head. But it was constantly updating every time I switched it on, the file explorer thing was woeful, stuff didn't "just work" like all the marketing nonsense, and it felt like everything on a superficial non-technical level that annoys me about Windows annoyed me much more on the Mac. Mentioning this usually provokes Apple fans to get very upset.

    Windows does irritate me, don't get me wrong, but I think that's just an inherent level of annoyance at IT and is most likely due in part to my lack of knowledge and my user error. 

    My laptop is getting on a bit and was a bad purchase in the first place, so whilst I very much do need to work out a better replacement system I lack the confidence to find a suitable machine given how badly it has gone in the past. A bit like the thing of knowing the difference between a £500 machine and a £200 machine that's overpriced by £300. Also then having to contend with a new OS whether that's W11 or whatever Apple are on these days doesn't exactly fill me with joy so I'm just making sure all my files are multiple backed up so when my laptop explodes I'm still ok
    I use both. I have to because of work. I ran a Hackintosh for years because Apple didn't make a reasonably priced powerful machine at the time (this was pre the i7 iMacs) and I needed the juice of a decent custom machine. But I own an i7 Macbook Pro, an i7 Mac Mini, and have had to be dual platform for a decade or so. So I'm definitely not an anti-Apple rabid type.

    But over the last few years the decisions made at Apple have made my day job much more of a pain in the ass than it needed to be. Because of their security "improvements" like enforced codesigning verification through their servers - how the fuck they expected anyone to do that when they are shipping gigabytes of audio content is anyone's guess.

    This is part of the reason as to why you've seen all these music software companies move over to license managers and service centres to deliver content - it allows you to just codesign your binaries and not have to schlep all of your audio-data to the Apple servers for literally zero benefit.

    Bye!

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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 8203
    edited October 14
    No system is perfect, you run what you are used to and like.

    p.s. Mac gets just as much flack all the time.  They got so much bad press for releasing the first phone over £1k...then Samsung comes out a couple of years with a £2k phone and nobody bat an eyelid.  I am currently HATING their new choice on the light/dark of the tabs on Safari, it is utterly idiotic.

    Which tab am I looking at?

    You'd think it's the one that is on the lighter shade???


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  • PhiltrePhiltre Frets: 3364
    macOS Monterey is dog shit.

    (Added for balance)
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  • adaminoadamino Frets: 119
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
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  • No system is perfect, you run what you are used to and like.

    p.s. Mac gets just as much flack all the time.  They got so much bad press for releasing the first phone over £1k...then Samsung comes out a couple of years with a £2k phone and nobody bat an eyelid.  I am currently HATING their new choice on the light/dark of the tabs on Safari, it is utterly idiotic.

    Which tab am I looking at?

    You'd think it's the out that is on the lighter shade???


    This is a discussion about tech, not pricing. Totally different conversations. And the darker tab looks like the selected one to me, because it contrasts with literally everything around it. Standard UI/UX 101 stuff.

    Also I have you blocked too.

    Bye!

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  • adamino said:
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
    It's a 10 year old chip that doesn't support the full range of modern instruction sets. Nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with it technically being impossible to support that chip whilst also improving computers and their future environmental impact.

    Bye!

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  • randellarandella Frets: 2892
    I've long harboured the theory that, because Apple adoption tends to be a choice thing whereas Windows is foisted on the majority in a work setting, there's less pissing and moaning about Mac OS. People are basically forced to use Windows all day to do their jobs.

    If the tables were turned I bet we'd hear more and more bitching about Apple's OS.

    As it is I reckon they're both decent, mature operating systems each of which has its share of irritating niggles. Neither of them is perfect but Jesus wept, anyone remember trying to install a driver for a no-mark printer in DOS 6?
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  • randella said:
    anyone remember trying to install a driver for a no-mark printer in DOS 6?
    I think I was 9 years old :lol:

    Bye!

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  • randellarandella Frets: 2892
    randella said:
    anyone remember trying to install a driver for a no-mark printer in DOS 6?
    I think I was 9 years old :lol:
    I wasn't much older, but the job still fell to me as the only one in the house who had an interest in tech. By the time I got to a work setting I think we were on Win 98 which I guess you could call an improvement :)
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 8105
    adamino said:
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
    It's a 10 year old chip that doesn't support the full range of modern instruction sets. Nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with it technically being impossible to support that chip whilst also improving computers and their future environmental impact.

    It's also an energy hog compared to later chips.  It's rated at 130W TDP.  Recent processors are much faster for around half that, and have other energy efficiencies as well.  I had a 4th gen chip that used to throttle back the clock speed when it wasn't being pushed.  I think newer CPUs turn off unused cores, and are even more efficient.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 20620
    edited October 14
    adamino said:
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
    It's a 10 year old chip that doesn't support the full range of modern instruction sets. Nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with it technically being impossible to support that chip whilst also improving computers and their future environmental impact.
    Nah, it's nothing to do with that. Nothing in Windows 11 is compiled to require newer instruction sets, as far as I know - the TPM requirement is artificial and can be removed with a registry setting, which allows you to use stuff as far back as Core 2 Duo chips.

    EDIT: It's obviously perfectly possible to support older CPUs from the same family. Hell, Linux still supports 486s, as well as 30+ entirely different architectures, and is still the highest-performing kernel under most circumstances. The TPM restrictions are a business decision, much the same as Apple's CPU and EFI shenanigans have been over the years.
    <space for hire>
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  • WiresDreamDisastersWiresDreamDisasters Frets: 16597
    edited October 14
    adamino said:
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
    It's a 10 year old chip that doesn't support the full range of modern instruction sets. Nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with it technically being impossible to support that chip whilst also improving computers and their future environmental impact.
    Nah, it's nothing to do with that. Nothing in Windows 11 is compiled to require newer instruction sets, as far as I know - the TPM requirement is artificial and can be removed with a registry setting, which allows you to use stuff as far back as Core 2 Duo chips.

    EDIT: It's obviously perfectly possible to support older CPUs from the same family. Hell, Linux still supports 486s, as well as 30+ entirely different architectures, and is still the highest-performing kernel under most circumstances. The TPM restrictions are a business decision, much the same as Apple's CPU and EFI shenanigans have been over the years.
    No, but why would you want to support obsolete technology that costs the planet. You can't maintain backwards compatibility forever when the goal is to improve things for the tech sector, to reduce environmental impacts, and to just make things "better". That's my point. If Adam is worried about pollution, he should recycle his machine and upgrade.

    We've stopped making physical products for all of the above reasons.

    I don't disagree that it's a business decision. But I've emphasised the important bit - whilst. I know it's technically possible. But you can't have both goals.

    Bye!

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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 20620
    edited October 14
    adamino said:
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
    It's a 10 year old chip that doesn't support the full range of modern instruction sets. Nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with it technically being impossible to support that chip whilst also improving computers and their future environmental impact.
    Nah, it's nothing to do with that. Nothing in Windows 11 is compiled to require newer instruction sets, as far as I know - the TPM requirement is artificial and can be removed with a registry setting, which allows you to use stuff as far back as Core 2 Duo chips.

    EDIT: It's obviously perfectly possible to support older CPUs from the same family. Hell, Linux still supports 486s, as well as 30+ entirely different architectures, and is still the highest-performing kernel under most circumstances. The TPM restrictions are a business decision, much the same as Apple's CPU and EFI shenanigans have been over the years.
    No, but why would you want to support obsolete technology that costs the planet. You can't maintain backwards compatibility forever when the goal is to improve things for the tech sector, to reduce environmental impacts, and to just make things "better". That's my point. If Adam is worried about pollution, he should recycle his machine and upgrade.

    We've stopped making physical products for all of the above reasons.

    I don't disagree that it's a business decision. But I've emphasised the important bit - whilst. I know it's technically possible. But you can't have both goals.
    I'm not saying those aren't laudable goals - but I find it hard to believe that those are Microsoft's goals.

    Far more likely that they cooked it up in conjunction with their partners and customers in the hardware space to kickstart the hardware business after the downturn.

    And, while it's true that an i7 980 is ancient, that's not where they drew the line. Most 7th gen Intel CPUs aren't supported either - and they're still high-performing CPUs for most workloads these days. In fact, a hell of a lot of PCs from a couple of years ago aren't supported either, because of the lack of a TPM module (or the lack of TPM module availability).

    Most of those machines will have to be chucked away if an upgrade to Win11 is necessary. It's the very opposite of being environmentally-friendly, it's just going to create more e-waste for the 95% of users who won't go near a registry hack.

    Not only that, but 9th gen and above Intel CPUs are actually more power-hungry and generate way more heat than any previous generation anyway. I've got a dual-socket 16 core Xeon machine from 10 years ago in the other room that runs cooler and uses less power from the socket than the TDP of a single 11th gen i7 CPU alone (and those i7s have been known to use a lot more than their TDP under heavy load).
    <space for hire>
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  • adamino said:
    Windows 11 is part of the pollution problem. We have to throw away our computers as some are incompatible.

    My perfectly working i7 CPU 980 (Quad core) ,24 gigs of ram, SSD drive computer is not compatible with windows 11.

    Surely this should be brought up and made aware of these polluting companies.Apple is just as bad!
    It's a 10 year old chip that doesn't support the full range of modern instruction sets. Nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with it technically being impossible to support that chip whilst also improving computers and their future environmental impact.
    Nah, it's nothing to do with that. Nothing in Windows 11 is compiled to require newer instruction sets, as far as I know - the TPM requirement is artificial and can be removed with a registry setting, which allows you to use stuff as far back as Core 2 Duo chips.

    EDIT: It's obviously perfectly possible to support older CPUs from the same family. Hell, Linux still supports 486s, as well as 30+ entirely different architectures, and is still the highest-performing kernel under most circumstances. The TPM restrictions are a business decision, much the same as Apple's CPU and EFI shenanigans have been over the years.
    No, but why would you want to support obsolete technology that costs the planet. You can't maintain backwards compatibility forever when the goal is to improve things for the tech sector, to reduce environmental impacts, and to just make things "better". That's my point. If Adam is worried about pollution, he should recycle his machine and upgrade.

    We've stopped making physical products for all of the above reasons.

    I don't disagree that it's a business decision. But I've emphasised the important bit - whilst. I know it's technically possible. But you can't have both goals.
    I'm not saying those aren't laudable goals - but I find it hard to believe that those are Microsoft's goals.

    Far more likely that they cooked it up in conjunction with their partners and customers in the hardware space to kickstart the hardware business after the downturn.

    And, while it's true that an i7 980 is ancient, that's not where they drew the line. Most 7th gen Intel CPUs aren't supported either - and they're still high-performing CPUs for most workloads these days. In fact, a hell of a lot of PCs from a couple of years ago aren't supported either, because of the lack of a TPM module (or the lack of TPM module availability).

    Most of those machines will have to be chucked away if an upgrade to Win11 is necessary. It's the very opposite of being environmentally-friendly, it's just going to create more e-waste for the 95% of users who won't go near a registry hack.

    Not only that, but 9th gen and above Intel CPUs are actually more power-hungry and generate way more heat than any previous generation anyway. I've got a dual-socket 16 core Xeon machine from 10 years ago in the other room that runs cooler and uses less power from the socket than the TDP of a single 11th gen i7 CPU alone (and those i7s have been known to use a lot more than their TDP under heavy load).
    Here's a list of CPU's that won't be compatible:
    https://allthings.how/list-of-all-intel-and-amd-processors-not-supported-by-windows-11/

    The newest ones seem to be 2017 releases. I'm pretty okay with that to be honest.

    Bye!

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  • PhiltrePhiltre Frets: 3364
    Those hardware requirements aren't necessary.

    For my testing purposes I installed Windows 11 as a VM in VMWare workstation with no virtual TPM. And on an i5 4690K. It runs fine (expected slower in a VM, but comparable to other VMs I'm running).
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