Staining & Finishing Advice for bare wood?

SuperSkrull · November 2021

My youngest has taken an interest in learning guitar, so rather than struggling with my heavy SG, I bought him a cheap sub-£100 guitar kit for his birthday that we can build together and he can play, drop, and thrash about without worry. Plus it would be good practice for a future partcaster build I was planning someday. The wood is bare and untreated (basswood body, maple neck with poplar fretboard) so I was wondering what finishing options to use? Don't have the provisions to spray at home, and don't really want the little 'un around spray can nitro. So staining seems to be the best way forward. To complicate things, the boy is adamant he wants a classic 3 tone burst.

I was looking at Wudtone but to get all the stains and finishing kits will end up costing more than I paid for the whole guitar kit, plus I am not clear as to how exactly to get a burst effect with all the different options they provide. So the obvious choice to me looks like the Crimson Guitar stains. Does anyone have any experience or instructions in using these for bursts or any other alternatives I haven't come across? After staining what would be recommended for finishing to get a satin/gloss coat? Apologies if these questions are all too basic!

Roland · November 2021

My personal experience is using spirit based wood stain. I haven’t ever used Crimson stains, so don’t know whether they are spirit based. You will find it difficult to do a 3 tone burst with stain because the colour blending is done by spraying. Also stain tends to seep along the grain, so even if you manage to wipe a clear line the stain is likely to spread before it dries.

It might be possible to be stain with the darker colour, then sand back to clean wood and apply the lighter colour over the top, but it would require experimenting. You don’t want to do that unless you’ve got spare wood to experiment on.

For a finish over the top I’ve always used Osmo polyX 3032 clear satin, applied as a series of very thin coats. As far as I’m aware Wudtone is based on Osmo.

SuperSkrull · November 2021

Roland said:

My personal experience is using spirit based wood stain. I haven’t ever used Crimson stains, so don’t know whether they are spirit based. You will find it difficult to do a 3 tone burst with stain because the colour blending is done by spraying. Also stain tends to seep along the grain, so even if you manage to wipe a clear line the stain is likely to spread before it dries.

It might be possible to be stain with the darker colour, then sand back to clean wood and apply the lighter colour over the top, but it would require experimenting. You don’t want to do that unless you’ve got spare wood to experiment on.

For a finish over the top I’ve always used Osmo polyX 3032 clear satin, applied as a series of very thin coats. As far as I’m aware Wudtone is based on Osmo.

Thanks for the tip on the Osmo, seems like quite lush stuff, plus it looks like you can get it in little sachets for less than a couple of quid each.

I was thinking the crimson stains as they are pretty cheap and you can get them in spirit or water based versions. Your suggestion of sanding back might be worth having a go on some scrap wood. Happy to do some experimenting as it's a cheap kit guitar and I hope the fun in building it with his old man will be what will make it a special first guitar for my lad.

ThePrettyDamned · November 2021

Blending water based stain is easier because it dries slowly. However, a 3 tone sunburst will be very difficult to stain compared to, say, a 2 tone red to yellow burst (like cherry sunburst) because of black - black pigments go on very heavy.

I've never worked with basswood before so looking forward to seeing how it pans out! I recommend testing on scrap, you'll learn loads.

HerrMetal · November 2021

Can't add a great deal here but I have recently used Osmo on the back of a Strat neck (after picking off the old chipped lacquer and sanding with 240 grit) and the feel is sublime. Just one simple wipe over with a bit of rag. In my case I used Osmo 1101 purely as I already had some in the house for refinishing some interior window sills.

steamabacus · November 2021

Crimson have a load of tutorial videos for using their stains on the YT channel. Not sure if they cover attempting a sunburst though.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp6z5fUMeeAYb4-gZOHOZau-Hmkjvmfkj

WBT2079 · November 2021

I have used the Crimson water based stains on a lot of bodies. They are easy to use and reasonably easy to blend if you keep moving before it starts to dry. I have used them on basswood, maple and mahogany. The basswood has more spread and absorbs the stain quicker so harder to keep a feathered edge for blending. As others say practice on scrap wood first.

Sarge · November 2021

I really like the powdered Keda dyes, they come as a pack of 6 if memory serves, so you can mix up as much as you need and play with mixing colour tones etc.
They can also be mixed with water or spirits, really vibrant colours and a lot of fun for the smaller people.

SuperSkrull · November 2021

Thank you so much for all the wonderful advice. The keda dyes look amazing but seems like you have to order direct from the USA, given my recent experience of buying from abroad I won't be holding my breath for delivery this side of xmas. I found this youtube video from Crimson Guitars where they go over using their water based stains for bursts. It looks possible but not easy peasy. Definitely need to make a trip to the local lumber yard for some practice wood. I think I'll get a selection of their water based dye concentrates and some osmo. Hopefully my son might be convinced to go for a different stain pattern once he gets his hands dirty and practices around for a bit.

Just an FYI for people who are interested in this topic, whilst searching for keda dyes on youtube, I came across this video from the PRS factory. Presumably a master builder and staining is not normally anywhere as easy as he makes it look

ThePrettyDamned · November 2021

I promise staining is not that hard... But it's also not as easy as prs make it look.

They not only do it day-in, day-out but they have a very rigorous process to make sure it's as ready as can be.

My thread in here is really boring, but is detailing my personal experience in trying to learn how to finish a guitar to a reasonable standard. 90 percent of the work is before any liquid hits the wood.

Currently, I'm figuring out wet sanding. It leaves the finish feeling absolutely sublime - super, super slick and nothing like the "sticky" feeling of a gloss finish from a factory guitar. Effort pays off!

TTony · November 2021

My experience-based vote would go to Crimson, and certainly Crimson instead of Wudtone, if you want to achieve a multi-colour (ie burst) style finish.

I've found Crimson to be very easy to apply. Blending them to get the right effect you want is more difficult, but that'll all be down to your artistic eye rather than anything that a stain can do for you. Glad you found that particular Crimson video, because that's what came to mind when I read your first post - but it would have taken me a while to find it again!

The Crimson stains are also fairly easy to remove, so if it does all go horribly horribly wrong, you can sand back to bare wood and start again (guess how I know that).

Probably best to have a vague idea of what you want, and then experiment fairly freely until you find something that you like. If you try to create a precise pattern with exact shades, you'll be working on it forever!

The Osmo products are excellent (again, in my experience), though possibly not for creating a burst style finish.

victorludorum · November 2021

Roland said:

My personal experience is using spirit based wood stain. I haven’t ever used Crimson stains, so don’t know whether they are spirit based. You will find it difficult to do a 3 tone burst with stain because the colour blending is done by spraying. Also stain tends to seep along the grain, so even if you manage to wipe a clear line the stain is likely to spread before it dries.

It might be possible to be stain with the darker colour, then sand back to clean wood and apply the lighter colour over the top, but it would require experimenting. You don’t want to do that unless you’ve got spare wood to experiment on.

For a finish over the top I’ve always used Osmo polyX 3032 clear satin, applied as a series of very thin coats. As far as I’m aware Wudtone is based on Osmo.

I tried @Roland 's technique of mixing Osmo with oil paint (tube stuff from art shops) and it worked really well. Lots of coverage for very little product.

BillDL · November 2021

One thing to remember is that water based stains (and in fact water itself) raises wood grain and it has to be sanded smooth, whereas spirit or solvent based stains don't raise wood grain.

Flip · November 2021

I've built and modded a number of guitars including one with a basswood body. You can see them on rtfact.co.uk - my wife is an artist.

I've used Crimson stuff but it's very expensive. Their stains are water-based which, given basswood's structure, makes the grain a problem. I now buy powder dyes and mix up my own in much higher strengths than the makers recommend - the usual story.

There's a guitar (already sold) on the site called Blue Flame that was two-colour with Crimson stain. I've not tried a three colour burst mainly because my job is to prepare the body for the artist. The bad news I'm afraid is that I would never touch basswood again. I gave up Crimson stuff on cost and use Boiled Linseed Oil very lightly on the necks.

Pity you can't spray, it's much easier to control and if I was doing a 3 colour burst I'd spray but I understand your situation.

I'm teaching my grandson to play - started when he was 4/5 now 10. Very fulfilling.

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Staining & Finishing Advice for bare wood?

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