Epiphone Joe Pass Mods?

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

I have a 2000 MIK Joe Pass. I don't have any other hollow or semi hollow body guitars so it's nice to have it, but it can sound a bit dark. Thoughts on putting some filtertons in it? I had entertained the idea of a Bigsby as I don't like the tailpiece, and the pickguard will have to go....! I don't know if there are any reversible Bigsby options (or other makers)...?

danowens · December 2021

What strings have you got on it?

Funkfingers · December 2021

Creed_Clicks said:

2000 MIK Joe Pass … can sound a bit dark.

You almost certainly have the notorious Epiphone waxbuckers. Better quality PAF-alike humbuckers should be an improvement.

The Tonerider AC4 Alnico 4 Classic might suffice for the neck position.

I would be tempted to ignore the bridge/Treble pickup. Maybe, even, remove it from circuit altogether.

Instead, have a piezo Tune-o-Matic bridge and create your own DIY Martin Taylor style Jazz guitar.

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

@Funkfingers ah so that’s it then

It sounds dull and weak and uninspiring. So maybe a fresh set of pickups might help! It definitely has lower output than some other bog standard guitars I have.

Funkfingers · December 2021

The easiest thing to change - as hinted at by @danowens - is the strings.

The Epi JP Emperor II will have been supplied with flatwound strings. In good condition, these are intended to sound mellow. As they age, they become increasingly dull and unresponsive.

The second item to change in search of tonal improvement is the carved wooden bridge. The preset intonation curve is intended for string sets with a wound G. A bridge with metal saddles would yield more treble.

The third item to change is the control harness. In 2000, it was cheap shit. Today, it is old, cheap shit. In your position, I would replace the bloody lot. There is little point upgrading pickups if the pots and selector switch just sap away the signal.

tanihhiavlt · December 2021

My advice would be play the darn thing.

What funkfingers is saying is right, but figure out what is important to you.

The difference is you can learn what you like OR you can learn what everyone else likes... which of those do you think is important?

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

@danowens they are regular strings , 10s I think, were on it when I bought it (used) God knows a fresh set are needed though.

Should I generally be using a set with a wound G for something like the Joe Pass? (I don’t play Jazz)

I have played Casinos and Epi Century reissues. In a similar ballpark but with a bit more “zing”, if that’s the right word, to them.

I will look into the harness option though. Any recommendations?

tanihhiavlt · December 2021

If it sounds good acoustically - then look to the pickups and loom. Until then consider

Finding strings you like playing first, then figure on the pickups later. The strings you use have a profound effect on the tone and may determine the sound you want, for me it's a constant battle to reconcile the tone against fighting meaty strings.

I personally use Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swing Flat-wound 13s on my archtop and D'Addario ECG24s Flatwound 11s on my Telecaster. (I use round-wound on the 335, SG and Strats).

The bridge, is it intonated correctly? You can replace a wooden bridge with an ABRS-1 and intonate that.

The tailpiece - do the strings resonate behind the bridge too much? Is there any mass to the tailpiece to help sustain (if you think it needs it). Tailpieces are a nightmare to replace as there's no one standard layout - the measurements on every spec are measured differently too, if the strings resonate too much I thread some cloth through the strings near the tailpiece.

At this point - you're looking to transfer that tone, to the amplifier.

Replacing the pickups is easy - cut them off close to the pickups so you don't need to remove the loom - this is nothing but misery and grazed knuckles. This will reduce the resale value of the pickups but save time, injury, frustration and a lot of tooling.

Replacing the loom. It will all want to go into the guitar through one of the pickup holes, so make sure the pots you've bought fit, not a problem on many hollow-bodies, my advice is put 3 feet of surgical tubing on each pot after removing the knob, nuts and washer. remember to loosen the jack and switch and then pull it all through carefully leaving the tubing on the pots, wire up the new loom and place the relevant tubing on each pot so they can be pulled back into place... I have an old coat hanger pulled straight with a 6.35mm jack (not the jacket) soldered to it, that goes through the jack hole and the jack is inserted into the jacksocket ... and all the tubes and the coat hanger are slowly pulled through ... don't forget to swear loudly if anything falls off.

Loom construction:
Braided wire looks great and shields well, but it's the earth wire - so if it touches the switch or the live lugs it's goodnight Vienna. In a big empty box any slack can have that happen intermittently - I use transparent heat-shrink on all the loom and the last foot of the pick-up wire.
I use CTS Audio taper on tone controls and CTS Linear on the volume (others prefer Audio for volume)
I avoid paper in oil caps as I like consistently reliable electrical components - I like the thicker wired orange caps.. I often wire them directly between the pots instead of cable. and I create a jig of all the holes to ensure it's in the ball-park, but bend extra loops into both ends so the length can change a little if needed.

Jalapeno · December 2021

Definitely go up a gauge or two on the strings - it's a big old laminated box and needs more oomph to move that soundboard. Another TI Flatwound user here.

I've a Epi Broadway which is basically the same guitar as a a Joe Pass- I've got a replacement Benedetto Seth Lover for the neck, and a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover for the bridge (though it isn't really used by me) - I say "got", they're not fitted yet, I will get around to getting the pickups changed eventually !

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

@tanihhiavlt thanks for that detailed message and advice. I would not dream of attempting this myself, so will be a luthier all the way. I will experiment with strings to start with and see how that goes. The guitar plays relatively fine. Intonation is fine overall as well.
I definitely found the intonation on the Epi 335 I had way more comfortable, but it's a different guitar so as to be expected...
I will persevere!

impmann · December 2021

I had one and it was hideously dark on the neck pickup - it was fitted with D'add chromes when I got it, so changed to a decent set of round wound d'adds (11 gauge) and it was "better". It had bugger-all articulation - yes, I know jazzers seem to favour a deep tone but there's always articulation and note separation. The standard pickups were diabolical - and too hot, imho.

I swapped the pickups out for a s/h set of Seymour Duncan 59s and it was soooooo much better. Its since changed hands to an old friend who changed out the 59s for a set of Seth Lovers and he makes it sound incredible.

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

@impmann I will try 11s and see how I go. With or without a wound G though....? I also order an archtop bridge with metal saddles/tom so will give that a go and see how she goes! Pickguard has to go as well. I'd like to put a tailpiece similar to a Casino on it, but don't want to be pissing around with something that doesn't need touching!

tanihhiavlt · December 2021

Good call about the pickguard

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

Thinking of one of these, just aesthetically looks better than the squiggle tailpiece. These should be standard enough in terms of dimensions I would think?

Image: https://guitarpartscenter.eu/userdata/public/gfx/15581/T-2-G.jpg

Image: https://guitarpartscenter.eu/userdata/public/gfx/15589/T-8-G.jpg

Funkfingers · December 2021

Creed_Clicks said:

pissing around with something that doesn't need touching.

danowens · December 2021

Creed_Clicks said:

@danowens they are regular strings , 10s I think, were on it when I bought it (used) God knows a fresh set are needed though.

Should I generally be using a set with a wound G for something like the Joe Pass? (I don’t play Jazz)

I think therein lies the problem: you’ve got old flatwound strings on a jazz box and you don’t play jazz. Just get a set of zingy, roundwound electric strings and start from there. You’ll be able to radically change the sound of your guitar in seconds and for less than a tenner, giving you more time to consider pickup/loom choices.

I do play jazz (or I’m trying to) and I mainly play on a tele. I’d quoted up some REALLY nice pickups from VintageVibe and planned the change. Then I put some Roto Top Tapes on (I seem to be in the minority liking these strings). 5 years later, it’s still got the same pickups.

Creed_Clicks · December 2021

I am thinking this might become my standard D to D tuned guitar

Option of dropping to C.

Creed_Clicks · February 2022

Since my last post, I have tuned it D to D. Still battling with the rest of it. But might look at some kind of a vibrato for it. Doesn't have to be a Bigsby brand, but any other suggestions?

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Epiphone Joe Pass Mods?

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