Humbucker Orientation

UnclePsychosis · February 2022

I think the answer is "no" but does it matter what way round you install a humbucker?

I have a pair of PAF types (from different manufacturers) that I am going to install but I was wondering if it matters whether the adjustable pole pieces are closer to the neck or the bridge or any combination of the two.

I seem to recall it doesn't really matter but maybe someone can reassure me...

TheOtherDennis · February 2022

I strongly suspect you're right, but in every pic I've seen of, say, a Les Paul - ie, with covered humbuckers - the pole pieces are facing outwards - neck towards the neck, bridge towards the bridge.

In uncovered HBs, ie, zebra kinds in, eg, a PRS SE Custom 24, the white part is placed in the same way.

On the couple or three occasions I've put HBs in mine, I've positioned them so that the side where the wire comes out is pointing towards the controls, which may be the crucial point - it certainly was for me, because with the HBs I installed, the wires weren't long enough to position them any other way.

Not sure if that helps, someone who actually knows will be along soon to correct me, I'm sure.

Funkfingers · February 2022

UnclePsychosis said:

I was wondering if it matters whether the adjustable pole pieces are closer to the neck or the bridge or any combination of the two.

It can, depending on how the individual coils are wound.

It definitely does in those tiny Johnny Smith jazz guitar humbuckers.

It definitely does in some DiMarzio circuits. DiMarzio sometimes glues the bar magnets in its humbuckers to the baseplates. This makes conventional polarity reversal a trifle difficult. The solution is to install the humbucker the "wrong" way around. (In the official schematic diagrams, the instructions will state whether the output cable should emerge on the high E side or the low E side.) On a pickup with twelve identical polepieces, it makes no visual difference. It may then be necessary to connect up the four conductor wires in the "wrong" order to achieve noise-cancellation in all selector switch positions.

ICBM · February 2022

There is a subtle difference, but not much.

Dave_Mc · February 2022

It can also put them out of phase (I think) if you fit them the wrong way. You can swap that electrically by rewiring usually, but not if the pickup has vintage-style braided wire. EDIT: Unless you mean fitting both the "wrong" way, which should mean they're in-phase again. I think.

Devil#20 · February 2022

I don't think it matters much with humbuckers and it's more a thing for single wound and what the polarity and direction of winding is. I think, for example, the preferred combination for a strat is RWRP (reverse wound, reverse polarity) because not all single coil pickup configurations are interchangeable. There's a good vid that nicely explains it somewhere if I can find it.

EDIT : Found it. Hope this link works.

downbytheriver · February 2022

Due to lack of lead length on my latest build, I had to install the pickups the “wrong way round”. Sounds fine!

ICBM · February 2022

Dave_Mc said:

It can also put them out of phase (I think) if you fit them the wrong way. You can swap that electrically by rewiring usually, but not if the pickup has vintage-style braided wire. EDIT: Unless you mean fitting both the "wrong" way, which should mean they're in-phase again. I think.

No, it doesn't. Although the person who accidentally phase-reversed Peter Green's neck pickup while repairing it presumably thought it did... since they then flipped the pickup to 'fix' it, which didn't

.

Rotating the pickup doesn't change anything - except the physical position of which coil is on when split.

It does subtly change the sound of the whole pickup because the two coils don't sound the same if they have screw and plain polepieces, and that makes a difference even when both are on. With something like a DiMarzio with two identical coils, it doesn't.

Dave_Mc · February 2022

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

It can also put them out of phase (I think) if you fit them the wrong way. You can swap that electrically by rewiring usually, but not if the pickup has vintage-style braided wire. EDIT: Unless you mean fitting both the "wrong" way, which should mean they're in-phase again. I think.

No, it doesn't. Although the person who accidentally phase-reversed Peter Green's neck pickup while repairing it presumably thought it did... since they then flipped the pickup to 'fix' it, which didn't .

Rotating the pickup doesn't change anything - except the physical position of which coil is on when split.

It does subtly change the sound of the whole pickup because the two coils don't sound the same if they have screw and plain polepieces, and that makes a difference even when both are on. With something like a DiMarzio with two identical coils, it doesn't.

Ah now that makes sense. I had a humbucker set where one was out of phase, and I was advised (by the maker) to flip it, and it didn't make any difference, it was still out of phase. When I flipped it electrically, that sorted it. (I tried physically flipping it first as it had vintage braided wire, I only flipped it electrically to prove it was out of phase to my own satisfaction in order to send it back so the maker would fix its phase internally... as you well know the vintage braid shorts out so that's not really a long-term solution... I had to fiddle around with the braided wire positioning a fair bit to even get enough sound to prove it was in-phase!)

I just assumed I had done something silly or had gone crazy, so I guess it's nice to know that I hadn't!

Agreed about how it slightly changes the tone (the position of the coils/the screws etc.). Also it kind of looks "wrong", to my eyes (especially on a covered pickup).

I'm guessing as well that, if you've used the screws specifically to affect the tone (rather than just even out outputs across strings) that that might make the individual coils sound even more different?

ICBM · February 2022

Dave_Mc said:

Agreed about how it slightly changes the tone (the position of the coils/the screws etc.). Also it kind of looks "wrong", to my eyes (especially on a covered pickup).

I think it depends on the guitar - you can get away with it on a faded sunburst Les Paul

. I think downbytheriver's one looks great too, with both the 'wrong' way round - but possibly because it's a very non-traditional colour. (The bridge being on backwards looks more wrong to me!

)

Dave_Mc said:

I'm guessing as well that, if you've used the screws specifically to affect the tone (rather than just even out outputs across strings) that that might make the individual coils sound even more different?

Yes, a friend of mine used to do that - he would raise the screw poles a millimetre or more. He liked to have all the switching options and wasn't really a humbucker player at all, by his own admission - he just liked PRSs, Eggles etc - so having two distinctly different single coil sounds was his preference.

Dave_Mc · February 2022

@ICBM ; Yeah that's true about @downbytheriver 's- it does look great. It looked a bit "wrong" on my (traditional-looking) Edwards LP, and I wasn't really after the Peter Green thing. Either looks or sound, I didn't really like the out-of-phase middle position sound, I don't know why so many people want it!

I tend to raise the polepieces a bit because I seem to prefer the sound that way, it tends to make things brighter. I'll probably change my mind tomorrow about this, though...

UnclePsychosis · February 2022

Thanks all. The only thing stopping me now is my cackhanded soldering. And a lack of time...

ICBM · February 2022

Dave_Mc said:

I tend to raise the polepieces a bit because I seem to prefer the sound that way, it tends to make things brighter.

Yes, definitely brighter - the more unbalanced the two coils, the more single-coil-like the sound.

You won’t be very surprised to find I don’t really like it beyond a small amount

.

downbytheriver · February 2022

ICBM said: (The bridge being on backwards looks more wrong to me! )

Oops - guilty! It was just slung together for the photo though!

Dave_Mc · February 2022

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I tend to raise the polepieces a bit because I seem to prefer the sound that way, it tends to make things brighter.

Yes, definitely brighter - the more unbalanced the two coils, the more single-coil-like the sound.

You won’t be very surprised to find I don’t really like it beyond a small amount .

LOL

UnclePsychosis · February 2022

The deed is done!

Turns out that decent PAFs sound a lot better than cheapy humbuckers. Who knew?

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