Body:neck weight ratio stop neck dive - fender type

Mr_Claw · May 2022

Hi all,

Hope you're good.

Any advice about how much heavier a strat body needs to be than a neck to prevent neck dive?

I have a body that I think is too heavy, but I don't want to end up with one that's so light the neck ends up diving.

Thanks as usual
C

Funkfingers · May 2022

The relative weights of body and neck are only two factors in the equation.

The single most important factor is the position of the upper horn strap button.

On a Stratocaster, this aligns with the thirteenth fret. Plenty far enough to eliminate neck dive.

A replacement body would need to be almost entirely hollow for it to be lighter than the neck.

ICBM · May 2022

It's not going to be an issue. I've got a Tele Thinline here for some work which weighs a total of 6lb 4oz, the Tele front strap button is parallel with the 16th fret, it has a fairly chunky neck and I've just put slightly heavier modern machineheads on it, and it *still* balances towards the body when you hang it by the strap button.

I also had a PRS Hollowbody which weighed well under 5lb and was indeed almost entirely hollow, and with the strap button parallel with the 14th fret that didn't neck dive either, although it was so light it had the odd sensation of holding just the neck...

Funkfingers · May 2022

This is the moment when the OP declares that his guitar neck is lignum vitae with dual stainless steel reinforcement rods and cast iron machineheads.

Blueingreen · May 2022

I've just bought a Tele and to my surprise it has a bit of neck dive. It's slight and wearing a suede strap is enough to stop any movement but I was surprised - I just hadn't anticipated that as a potential issue with a Tele. It's about medium weight for a Tele I think at around 7.5lbs and has a deep C neck, so not chunky.

Mr_Claw · May 2022

Funkfingers said:

This is the moment when the OP declares that his guitar neck is lignum vitae with dual stainless steel reinforcement rods and cast iron machineheads.

Close. Pure plutonium with a lead fingerboard.

Mr_Claw · May 2022

Thanks all. Guess the point is: don't worry about it.

Ungulate · May 2022

Blueingreen said:

I've just bought a Tele and to my surprise it has a bit of neck dive. It's slight and wearing a suede strap is enough to stop any movement but I was surprised - I just hadn't anticipated that as a potential issue with a Tele. It's about medium weight for a Tele I think at around 7.5lbs and has a deep C neck, so not chunky.

Yeah, I have a CS tele which has some neck dive, I stuck a bit of suede on the inside of the strap where it sits on my shoulder = problem solved.

Sporky · May 2022

I'd think the two factors are strap button position relative to neck pocket (as already mentioned), and the length & weight if the neck. I don't think the body weight has much effect because the body is hung between the two strap buttons and therefore doesn't exert any moment on the assembly.

WezV · May 2022

Sporky said:

I'd think the two factors are strap button position relative to neck pocket (as already mentioned), and the length & weight if the neck. I don't think the body weight has much effect because the body is hung between the two strap buttons and therefore doesn't exert any moment on the assembly.

Position of neck pocket isn't really a factor, its upper strap button relative to neck/fret.

Put that strap button near the 12th fret and you would struggle to make a normal shaped guitar not balance. At the 14th -16th most are at, body or neck weight can affect things, but only at extremes. move that strap button further up than 16th and balance can become an issue. Will add some example after breakfast

ICBM · May 2022

Sporky said:

I'd think the two factors are strap button position relative to neck pocket (as already mentioned), and the length & weight if the neck. I don't think the body weight has much effect because the body is hung between the two strap buttons and therefore doesn't exert any moment on the assembly.

That’s certainly true if the strap is even slightly grippy on your clothes. If it’s a super-slippery nylon one then it can slide forwards if the balance is neck-heavy when you hold it just by the front button.

Sporky · May 2022

WezV said:

Position of neck pocket isn't really a factor, its upper strap button relative to neck/fret.

You're right. I think I was trying to consider the button position relative the the COG of the neck but got it wrong.

WezV · May 2022

Sorry to the OP, i know this doesn't help your question. Except to say a normal spec strat will likely balance fine whatever weight the body is, thanks to the position of its strap buttons

examples from some of my builds, which tend to be a bit different to factory guitars. 2 are les paul in shape only, so provide a good example for how changing other factors affects things on a shape that should balance easily.

Image: https://i.imgur.com/JRsl2tv.jpg?1

Guitar weighs 8lb 15oz as the body is made from a engineered wood product to mimic rosewood. Strap button is 16th fret. It's a fender neck with fender scale and big headstock. My expectation would be this would be body heavy because it has a heavy body. Actually the longer neck with big headstock gives it a slight tendency towards neck heaviness on the strap, even with vintage style tuners with plastic buttons. Essentially, the good strap button placement on a LP stops the body weight being an issue, but can't help with the heavier headstock that's further away from that point. The guitar hangs level, rather than with neck pointing slightly up, so not really an issue

Again les paul shaped. This time with a fully hollow spruce/walnut body and maple/ebony neck. It weighs 6lb 6oz and everything is in the normal LP positions so should balance fine. However on this the discrepancy between neck and body weights pushes it towards neck heaviness, especially with these tuners. Oddly, the guitar feels heavier than it is because of this. I have weighed it multiple times as i didn't believe the scales. Again we have the weight of the neck affecting a LP more, but this time the extremely light body really doesn't help matters. Doesn't have strap buttons yet, so lets see how it copes once it does

Body is poplar, neck is Afromosia, so again we have a light body heavy neck combo - but this time the strap button is moved to the 14 1/2 fret. It weighs 6lb 12oz in its finished state. also worth noting there is less distance behind the bridge than the other two examples, so the center of mass for the body is closer to the neck. Very nicely balanced

Maple through neck with some of the lightest mahogany i have ever had for the wings. Strap button is near 12th fret, not much body behind the bridge. Actual weight is about 6lb. Perceived weight is that the guitar is not even there. Balance is perfect.

All the guitars are great in their own way. Ergonomically, the bottom one clear wins because it gets the balance between body, neck and strap button position right.

Dave_Mc · May 2022

Ungulate said:

Blueingreen said:

I've just bought a Tele and to my surprise it has a bit of neck dive. It's slight and wearing a suede strap is enough to stop any movement but I was surprised - I just hadn't anticipated that as a potential issue with a Tele. It's about medium weight for a Tele I think at around 7.5lbs and has a deep C neck, so not chunky.

Yeah, I have a CS tele which has some neck dive, I stuck a bit of suede on the inside of the strap where it sits on my shoulder = problem solved.

That's the amateur way to do it, though. The real pros stick a bit of suede to their shoulder!

Ungulate · May 2022

Dave_Mc said:

Ungulate said:

Blueingreen said:

I've just bought a Tele and to my surprise it has a bit of neck dive. It's slight and wearing a suede strap is enough to stop any movement but I was surprised - I just hadn't anticipated that as a potential issue with a Tele. It's about medium weight for a Tele I think at around 7.5lbs and has a deep C neck, so not chunky.

Yeah, I have a CS tele which has some neck dive, I stuck a bit of suede on the inside of the strap where it sits on my shoulder = problem solved.

That's the amateur way to do it, though. The real pros stick a bit of suede to their shoulder!

Recoils in horror, bit like leather elbow patches on a fusty old tweed jacket??!

Mr_Claw · May 2022

Ungulate said:

Dave_Mc said:

Ungulate said:

Blueingreen said:

I've just bought a Tele and to my surprise it has a bit of neck dive. It's slight and wearing a suede strap is enough to stop any movement but I was surprised - I just hadn't anticipated that as a potential issue with a Tele. It's about medium weight for a Tele I think at around 7.5lbs and has a deep C neck, so not chunky.

Yeah, I have a CS tele which has some neck dive, I stuck a bit of suede on the inside of the strap where it sits on my shoulder = problem solved.

That's the amateur way to do it, though. The real pros stick a bit of suede to their shoulder!

Recoils in horror, bit like leather elbow patches on a fusty old tweed jacket??!

I'm literally wearing a brown, tweed jacket with suede elbow patches this very moment.

prlgmnr · May 2022

WezV said:

Woof.

Or, given the feline presence in the photo, meow.

Dave_Mc · May 2022

Ungulate said:

Dave_Mc said:

Ungulate said:

Blueingreen said:

I've just bought a Tele and to my surprise it has a bit of neck dive. It's slight and wearing a suede strap is enough to stop any movement but I was surprised - I just hadn't anticipated that as a potential issue with a Tele. It's about medium weight for a Tele I think at around 7.5lbs and has a deep C neck, so not chunky.

Yeah, I have a CS tele which has some neck dive, I stuck a bit of suede on the inside of the strap where it sits on my shoulder = problem solved.

That's the amateur way to do it, though. The real pros stick a bit of suede to their shoulder!

Recoils in horror, bit like leather elbow patches on a fusty old tweed jacket??!

BillDL · May 2022

@Mr_Claw ;;
Have you ever had the guitar in pieces and weighed the neck and body separately?
If you already knew the weight of the heavy body currently on your guitar you MIGHT be able to do a rudimentary simulation of fitting a lighter body by hanging a weight on the neck. Fit a cheap slippery nylon strap that slides easily across the fabric of your shirt and hang a bag on the neck maybe somewhere around the 7th fret. Add bolts, nuts, marbles, or something like that to the bag one at a time until the guitar begins to neck dive. Weight the bag. That might provide a very rough approximation of how much lighter a body you can fit to the same neck without it being neck heavy on a strap. The only thing I'm really guessing at is where on the neck would be the best place to hang the weight for a realistic approximation, and I'm crap at physics. Just thinking out loud really.

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Body:neck weight ratio stop neck dive - fender type

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