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Fake Mic? & Moral Dilemma. Second opinion & advice required.

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MistergMisterg Frets: 365
edited August 2014 in Amps
Dunno if it's the right place to post this, but I'm pretty hacked off at the moment, so it'll have to do...

I think a friend has been conned. She's a singer without much money, and was bought a 'new' second hand mic for her birthday by one of her friends.

They both went to a music shop which I had regarded as being a decent place to buy the mic, a SM57, and were bemused that the shop man insisted on plugging the mic in and shouting things into it, despite the fact that they hadn't asked, and he made no pretence of singing. No matter, the deal was done.

When she came to try it, there was no signal from it at all.

At some point she unscrewed the body and found that the wires inside were broken.

Then she asked me to fix it, but not to say anything to the friend that had paid for it.

As above, it's an SM57. But I think it's a fake. (No. I'm sure it's a fake :( )

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3953_zps69124538.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3946_zpse561082f.jpg

Correct number of holes near base & grille below the top is the right colour

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3952_zps38c853e5.jpg

Recess around XLR connector rings alarm bells.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3957_zps8b6ad390.jpg

Weight is wrong? Should be ~280g??

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3950_zps14c3a2d6.jpg

The screw needs to be turned *clockwise* to screw it in and release the XLR connector (aren't the real ones left hand threaded?)

The wires to the XLR connector are blue/red as expected.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3951_zpsf704a9b0.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3936_zps155dc3d5.jpg

PCB looks genuine...?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3937_zps3ba66305.jpg

But there is *no* continuity between pins 2 & 3 of the XLR with the capsule wires broken off, but I would expect to measure a low resistance due to the transformer, whether the capsule is connected or not.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3940_zps234b0738.jpg

But, there is continuity between pins 2 & 3 of the XLR and the yellow and green capsule leads :-/

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3942_zps611ecd10.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3943_zps1d68a1ef.jpg

I shouldn't see anything here, should I ?

There's no serial number on the top part of the mic, either

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3945_zps82443914.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3944_zps2278a0e8.jpg

(And the printing on the 'Sure' logo looks off - the end of the leg of the R should be vertical, I think, not at right angles)

She'd unscrewed the top of the mic at some point, too. The top doesn't rotate as I understand a genuine SM57 should.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3938_zps78e0b0fe.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3939_zps61530df0.jpg

The resistance between the red and black wires is 235 ohm.

The mic came with a Sure branded XLR cable which felt cheap & nasty with a Christmas-cracker XLR connector on the end.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3954_zps987f0b12.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh143/werdnayarg/webstuf/SM57/DSC_3955_zps0f834593.jpg

The various bits seem to be intact, so I could solder the wires back on and make it functional.

The friend insists that she did nothing with the mic until she couldn't get it to work, which suggests that it was faulty from the start. The insistence of the shop man to prove that it worked stinks to high heaven, almost like he switched it for a duff mic that he was trying to get rid of when two females came in to buy one.


SO:
Should I tell her of my suspicions?

Does anyone think it's a genuine mic and I'm a paranoid fool?

Should I just solder it together & say nothing?

Refuse to touch it in case the shop claims it's all somehow my fault?

Solder it back together so she can take it back to the shop as a working fake?

Get trading Standards involved?

What.....?

Addendum:

What rights does she have if she bought 2nd hand from a shop? Is it strictly 'Caveat Emptor?' (i.e. none!)





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Comments

  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22446
    What kind of shop was it? Definitely looks like a fake to me.
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  • MistergMisterg Frets: 365
    edited August 2014
    Drew_fx said:
    What kind of shop was it? Definitely looks like a fake to me.
    'High Street' independent music shop - long established, sells mostly acoustic guitars, but also amps & school-music-lesson instruments.

    ETA: It used to have a decent stock of 2nd hand guitars, so buying used gear there isn't unexpected. (Last time I was in, they had virtually no 2nd hand stock, though.)


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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1747

    Probably a fake but that really does not matter if it didn't work. Faulty Shure mics are rare as rocking horse droppings. Faulty NEW Shure mics are almost unheard of.

    In any case the salesman was a pratt since a singer would surely want an SM 58? The differences have been debated ad.n. but the 58 is THE singers mic.


    Dave.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 74497
    edited August 2014
    Some vocalists (especially female) prefer the 57.


    (Edit - I'm now sure it's a fake too.)


    I have one which is too old to be a fake which weighs 266 grams, and has a recess around the XLR, although not as pronounced as that one. And yes, the originals did come with crappy cables like that.

    I would put it back as you found it and take it back for a refund. If it doesn't work you are within your rights to insist on it and not accept a repair or replacement no matter what the shop tells you - even if it's second hand. The goods must be of merchantable quality.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7560
    What's the difference between 57 and 58?

    Apologies for off topic ;) I'd read they're essentially the same?

    Anyway, go for a refund. They can send it back to manufacturer or inspect it themselves. Perhaps ask them to check it is genuine?
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 11014

    The fakes I've seen didn't have a transformer but other than that you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between the fake and the real one. There are fake Senn 9 series mics all over the place now so copying an sm57 is a piece of cake for these people in comparison 

    A friend of mine works in another studio and he likes the fake 57's on drums, just have to remember there's nothing to block any DC phantom power you might be using if it's not on a per channel bassist ...... sometimes the fake 57's thoughtfully include a DC blocking cap though 

    You said the guy in the shop tried it out though didn't you and it worked ........... surely it did n;t break on the way home even a fake would be more robust than that
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7974
    http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1118/~/sm57-vs-sm58
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7560
    Cheers gfb!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 74497
    edited August 2014
    Ah, I've re-read your description and looked at the pics properly (was on my phone earlier) and it sounds like the transformer is a dummy if the blue and red wires are not connected to a transformer winding and are continuous to the green and yellow wires - you're right that this is all wrong! So it's either been bodged by someone - almost impossible I think, it doesn't look like it's been altered - or is a fake.

    It seems a remarkable amount of trouble to go to, even to the extent of joining different coloured wires like that, but your meter readings do look pretty conclusive. It shows the level fakers are willing to go to to fool people who know "what to look for" with a brief internal inspection.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  • MistergMisterg Frets: 365
    Danny1969 said:

     You said the guy in the shop tried it out though didn't you and it worked ........... surely it did n;t break on the way home even a fake would be more robust than that

    Yeah, that's another part of it - when I saw it, the green/yellow wires were both broken, tightly twisted together and tucked back into the base, so if I trust the singer not to have done it, there's no way that the mic could have worked, and it makes me suspicious about the shop man. I've asked her what he said about any guarantees (bear in mind this was 2nd hand).


     

    ICBM said:
    Ah, I've re-read your description and looked at the pics properly (was on my phone earlier) and it sounds like the transformer is a dummy if the blue and red wires are not connected to a transformer winding and are continuous to the green and yellow wires - you're right that this is all wrong! So it's either been bodged by someone - almost impossible I think, it doesn't look like it's been altered - or is a fake.

    Thanks for confirming that I'm not going nuts! Yes, the blue/red wires seem to morph into green/yellow inside the goop. There is what looks like a transformer core inside the goop, but I've seen references to these just being dummies in other fakes. There's definitely no continuity between the green & yellow pair or the blue and red pair which I'd expect if there was a transformer.

     

    At the moment, I think I should screw it all back together and get her to take it back to the shop for a refund.

    (Then there's the "This isn't the mic I sold you...." possibility).

    Ta.

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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22446
    Take it back for sure. It really looks like a fake to me.
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  • gubblegubble Frets: 1826
    ecc83 said:

    Probably a fake but that really does not matter if it didn't work. Faulty Shure mics are rare as rocking horse droppings. Faulty NEW Shure mics are almost unheard of.

     

    I second this. My SM58 has probably seen been used, abused, drowned, attacked for over a decade and it still going as strong as the day i bought it.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 74497
    edited August 2014
    Misterg said:

    Thanks for confirming that I'm not going nuts! Yes, the blue/red wires seem to morph into green/yellow inside the goop. There is what looks like a transformer core inside the goop, but I've seen references to these just being dummies in other fakes. There's definitely no continuity between the green & yellow pair or the blue and red pair which I'd expect if there was a transformer.

    At the moment, I think I should screw it all back together and get her to take it back to the shop for a refund.

    (Then there's the "This isn't the mic I sold you...." possibility).

    Then there's the Trading Standards possibility if they try that. Selling counterfeit goods is an offence, and I'm sure enough that it's a fake now that if you say you can prove it - the dummy transformer is conclusive - they will probably back down - at the very least, to give them the opportunity to dispose of the evidence...

    While I feel sorry for a small shop that got caught buying a second hand fake like this, they can't simply pass that on to someone else, and they should learn to be more careful.

    In all honesty, I would never buy a second hand vocal mic unless I knew exactly where it had come from anyway! It seems an odd choice for a birthday present. I don't even like *using* mics that other people's mouths have been in close contact with.

    (When I was in a band with three vocalists, I bought them a set of new SM58s and engraved their initials on them, so they never had to use the usual horrible rehearsal-studio and club gig mics.)


    Wisdoms for @Drew_fx for being so certain it was a fake to begin with.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22446
    Only coz I've been stung before with these :(
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  • MistergMisterg Frets: 365
    ICBM said:
    It seems an odd choice for a birthday present.
    It wasn't a random choice :) (long story)

    Shop said "no guarantee as 2nd hand" when they bought it.

    Will be going with them to take it back tomorrow...
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4268

    Good luck and check this out  " Fit For Purpose"

     

    http://www.moneywise.co.uk/cut-your-costs/shop-smart/your-rights-when-buying-second-hand-goods

     

    7 Day cooling off period as well

    Fingers crossed you get it sorted

     

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 74497
    Even without a guarantee, the item must be of saleable quality in the first place. The Sale Of Goods Act applies to second hand goods as well.

    Sounds like a highly dodgy place to be honest. I wouldn't hesitate to call Trading Standards if they refuse a full refund.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 11014

    I wouldn't admit to taking it apart though !
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • MistergMisterg Frets: 365
    Danny1969 said:

    I wouldn't admit to taking it apart though !
    Absolutely! :D

    Have sussed out the S.O.G.A. & would have no hesitation going to Trading Standards if it all goes pear-shaped (have to go via CAB, first now, apparently).
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2462
    edited August 2014
    +1 on ICBM. I have no idea if it's fake or not (I don't know anything about mikes), though most people seem to be saying it's fake. If it's stopped working, as ICBM said, you should be able to get a refund anyway. But definitely take it back. That sucks, by the way :( People always say, "Buy in your local small shop", but some small local shops are small and local for a reason... they're a bunch of chancers.

    ThePrettyDamned said:
    What's the difference between 57 and 58?
    1

    Sorry >:D<
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