›

So I rewired the Vintage VS6 SG..and it sounds sh*te...

What's Hot
AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
edited October 2022 in Making & Modding
Been a slow process this, but inspired by tales of how good these things can be, I bought a cheap one (a very early  original I think - c 2002). I then set about replacing the wonky set of tuners with a decent s/h set of PRS ones, and then finally wired in a new Epiphone LP/SG loom, to fix a problem with a broken low-grade pot in the original.





The build quality is actually great on it. Problem is the tones I've been getting (both pre and post the wiring update) are lousy.

it is currently equipped with the original G&B pickup it came with in the neck position - which sounds wooly/muddy as hell - and an Iron Gear Dirty Torque which somebody has fitted in the bridge, which sounds ok with loads of gain, but very thin and nasal otherwise.  The only way I can get a bearable clean sound is to use the middle position which just about allows the nasal bridge tone to balance the muddy sounds from the G&B in the neck.

I was wondering whether the problems are down to a fundamental mismatch in the two pickups, or whether it's perhaps down to the fact that the combination of pots and capacitors in the Epiphone loom just don't work with the two different pickups ?

This is the loom:



I have another couple of spare MIJ Tokai pickups out of a LoveRock - but not really sure I really want to throw more money and components into the Vintage at this stage.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated.
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

Comments

  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 8078
    Problem is with the pickups not the harness.

    You can't fix the bridge tone without modifying the pickup itself. With that pickup I'd try a magnet swap for alnico 4, on most humbuckers you can loosen the baseplate and slide another in. 

    The neck pickup may be trickier, you could try an Alnico 3 magnet and a 1meg ohm pot for vol & tone but it will be easier to just replace the neck pickup with romething bright and low wind. Even a total budget p90 will sound better eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403768378829?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=mwqq0brxtmy&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tXAsncnbQFC&var=673675713121&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 15275
    It would help to see photographs of your actual wiring in the SG control cavity.

    I assume that the IGDT humbucker has four-conductor + shield output cable. I also assume that you followed an official Iron Gear schematic wiring diagram. If the four insulated wires are connected in the wrong order, the pickup may not functional as intended - if at all.

    What is the output cable format of the G&B humbucker? 4-con + shield or simple single insulated conductor and steel strand shield/ground?

    There are numerous probable options for what could be done with your guitar, depending on the purpose(s) you expect it to satisfy. I shall not burden you with these just yet. :)
    You say, atom bomb. I say, tin of corned beef.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    edited October 2022
    ^ You did indeed mention 50s wiring earlier..

    The pickups have different colour coding, but are both 4 core and shield, checked to ensure the coils on each are in series, and the hot wires identified.  As per advice on that previous thread I connected the hot lead from each pickup to the the tag on the respective volume pot connected to its tone control, and the ground and shield wires to the back of the volume pot.

    I dont know whether that matched there Iron Gear diagram, but assume it should work well enough to let the pickups do their thing ?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    Winny_Pooh said:
    Problem is with the pickups not the harness.

    You can't fix the bridge tone without modifying the pickup itself. With that pickup I'd try a magnet swap for alnico 4, on most humbuckers you can loosen the baseplate and slide another in. 

    The neck pickup may be trickier, you could try an Alnico 3 magnet and a 1meg ohm pot for vol & tone but it will be easier to just replace the neck pickup with romething bright and low wind. Even a total budget p90 will sound better eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403768378829?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=mwqq0brxtmy&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tXAsncnbQFC&var=673675713121&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



    Kind of what I feared - might be simpler to swop one (or both( pickups) for a known combination than trying to modify the two cheap ones already in it ?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 74493
    If you have the pickups from a Love Rock, try those first.

    While that loom is not *amazing* quality - the thin shielded cable in particular - it doesn't make that much difference, and especially not if one pickup is too muddy and the other too thin. (Crappy wiring will normally make both muddy.)

    '50s' wiring only changes the way the pots interact as you turn the volumes down, it doesn't alter anything when they're full up.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 15275
    The obvious question that has yet to be asked is, through what amplification is the SG normally played? 

    El Cheapo amplification is a great leveller, making anything from an Argos Strat to the most expensive Orthodontists Only limited edition model sound much alike. i.e. Vile.

    Gotta wonder what amplification Iron Gear use for their audio demonstrations? It made the Dirty Torque humbucker sound like the proverbial angry wasp in a jar … through a cocked wah pedal. :astonished: 

    •

    G&B can make good pickups. I love the ones in the PRS S2 Vela.
    You say, atom bomb. I say, tin of corned beef.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    Funkfingers said:
    The obvious question that has yet to be asked is, through what amplification is the SG normally played? 

    El Cheapo amplification is a great leveller, making anything from an Argos Strat to the most expensive Orthodontists Only limited edition model sound much alike. i.e. Vile.

    Mustang IV Modelling amp or a Laney Cub 12. Can get it to work after a fashion with the Mustang, but it just isn't good.

    Id be fairly confident in saying the amplification aint the weak link :)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    edited October 2022
    ICBM said:
    If you have the pickups from a Love Rock, try those first.

    Actually - just remembered I still have these from a previous stalled project..





    Coupla high output DiMarzio lookalikes that I was planning to insert into a Westbury at one point. More towards the Rock-Machine end of the spectrum. Might be fun sticking these into the SG than the relatively restrained Tokai ones. In fact, quite possibly rude not to in this case ..
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 15275
    For reasons I can not explain, SGs often go better with relatively low output humbuckers. Exceptions to this sweeping generalisation include Gibson Tony Iommi humbuckers and Bare Knuckle Pig90s.

    Cream humbuckers in a black SG = hairdresser. 
    You say, atom bomb. I say, tin of corned beef.
    2reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    ^ :) :)

    Miaow darling.. :)
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SargeSarge Frets: 2441
    Cream in a black anything... Awesome.
    get those donlis fitted man! 
    My trading feedback page
    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/61134/sarge/p1
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    Like this you mean ?



    Gimme time hun..it's been such a long day and I have these last few blow-drys to finish.. :)
    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SargeSarge Frets: 2441
    yes, just like that.
    looks great! 
    My trading feedback page
    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/61134/sarge/p1
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 15275
    Hurry, hurry, hurry to Ash's latest Oil City Pickups workshop clearance sale. 
    You say, atom bomb. I say, tin of corned beef.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    Ok - so ignoring dodgy photography, and the reduced string setup for the moment..



    I don't think it looks too bad at all :)

    Sounds better too. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 74493
    Looks great - very Matsumoku c. 1980 if Mat made SGs :).

    Is that a 'crown' speed knob on the treble tone? If so you need another three ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • AK99AK99 Frets: 1738
    Well spotted that man - 'tis indeed. Yeah, the speedknobs probably have the edge. Shall go a-rummaging.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.