Tried to wire in a spin-a-split, and it didn't work

Dave_Mc · November 2022

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd convert my Charvel So-Cal to HSH, and thought while I was at it I'd try a spin-a-split. It doesn't seem to have worked.

I'm getting the split ok (i.e. one coil) with the knob down to zero (so I think that bit's working properly), but with the pot up full, I'm only getting about half of the second coil (plus the full other coil i.e. I'm getting about three quarters of the resistance of the full series humbucker), judging by the resistances. Any ideas what might be wrong? I'm guessing it's something to do with the spin-a-split pot wiring, since it's happening to both humbuckers, and the resistance for the middle single coil is correct, so I think that means there's nothing more serious wrong with the overall wiring (but I could well be wrong about that!

).

Here's the wiring scheme I was using:

Image: https://www.seymourduncan.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/Spin-A-Split.gif

I'm using just the one pot to split both humbuckers at once- I think that's possible because my Patrick Eggle Vienna did it like that (in hindsight, I really should have taken a note of how it was wired before I took it out!), so I'm assuming that works, even though most places I've found online seemed to say you needed one pot per pickup. I'm using a 500k volume pot (push-push to add the bridge pickup to the neck setting), a 500k no-load tone pot, and a 250k no-load pot for the spin-a-split.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Dave

ICBM · November 2022

Dave_Mc said:

I'm using just the one pot to split both humbuckers at once- I think that's possible

No, it's not - you would need a dual-gang pot - or at least, not if you've just connected both red/white wires to the same pot. What you've done is connect the other coil split to the pickup you're using, which will drop its resistance to about 3/4 as you're finding.

The only way you can do it with one pot is if you use the second side of the selector switch to select which of the coil splits the pot is connected to.

Dave_Mc · November 2022

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I'm using just the one pot to split both humbuckers at once- I think that's possible

No, it's not - you would need a dual-gang pot - or at least, not if you've just connected both red/white wires to the same pot. What you've done is connect the other coil split to the pickup you're using, which will drop its resistance to about 3/4 as you're finding.

The only way you can do it with one pot is if you use the second side of the selector switch to select which of the coil splits the pot is connected to.

Ah ok, thanks John. I was thinking it was a bit suspicious that it was half as much as it should be, that maybe it actually wasn't possible with the one pot!

How do I use the second side of the pickup selector to do that? I can use the second side no problem, it's not being used for anything else. EDIT: It's a CRL 5-way lever switch.

ICBM · November 2022

Dave_Mc said:

How do I use the second side of the pickup selector to do that? I can use the second side no problem, it's not being used for anything else.

Connect the split pot to the rotor, and the two coil red/white coil splits to the appropriate neck and bridge terminals - make sure it's the right way round or it won't work at all

.

Dave_Mc · November 2022

Thanks

Ok so just so I'm sure about this:

I connect the middle lug of the split pot to the rotor (and keep the first lug grounded)

What's the rotor?

I tried googling that but got nowhere, I'm guessing it's one of the contacts of the lever switch, maybe the one you connect to the volume?

And I connect the two bridge split wires to what would be the bridge tone control connection on the second side of the switch

And I connect the two neck split wires to what would be the neck tone control connection on the second side of the switch

Do I link the two sides of the switch with a wire?

Sorry for being a bit dim

ICBM · November 2022

Dave_Mc said:

I connect the middle lug of the split pot to the rotor (and keep the first lug grounded)

Yes.

Dave_Mc said:

I'm guessing it's one of the contacts of the lever switch, maybe the one you connect to the volume?

Yes, the one that would be connected across the switch and then to the volume if it was being used to select the tone controls in a standard Strat. On a standard CRL switch it's the one at the opposite end from the volume pot connection, on the other side from the pickups.

Dave_Mc said:

And I connect the two bridge split wires to what would be the bridge tone control connection on the second side of the switch

And I connect the two neck split wires to what would be the neck tone control connection on the second side of the switch

Yes.

Dave_Mc said:

Do I link the two sides of the switch with a wire?

No! It was going so well up to here

. The two sides need to be independent - the first selects the pickups, the second selects which is being split.

Dave_Mc said:

Sorry for being a bit dim

You're not, these things aren't intuitively obvious without half a lifetime wiring these things up - often from first principles before the internet

.

Dave_Mc · November 2022

LOL you're not going to believe this, but before I posted I originally was going to keep the two sides of the switch independent. But then I thought that might be wrong, so I changed it! I probably should've guessed the two sides needed to be independent, I think auto-splits on a 5-way keep the two sides separate and I'm guessing they work in a similar way to this.

And brilliant, thanks very much, I'll give that a go and report back (I mean I'm expecting it to work, but I can't rule out doing something stupid!).

Funkfingers · November 2022

By Jove. I think he's got it.

The second selector switch pole only handles the coil splittage. Its common/collector terminal connects to the dedicated Spin-A-Split pot.

C 1 2 3
1 2 3 C

The neck humbucker split wires connect to terminal 3.

The bridge humbucker split wires connect to terminal 1.

On the standard CRL five-way selector switch, the split works in switch positions 1, 2, 4 and 5.

If you desire auto split in positions 2 and 4 but variable split in positions 1 and 5, you really need a four-pole Superswitch (or one of those Fender hybrid switches that combine one CRL eight contact wafer and one Oak Grigsby twelve contact wafer).

ICBM · November 2022

Funkfingers said:

If you desire auto split in positions 2 and 4 but variable split in positions 1 and 5, you really need a four-pole Superswitch (or one of those Fender hybrid switches that combine one CRL eight contact wafer and one Oak Grigsby twelve contact wafer).

Or you can do it by just connecting terminal 2 to ground

.

(Combining the split-selector with the Ibanez auto-split, basically.)

Dave_Mc · November 2022

Funkfingers said:

By Jove. I think he's got it.

The second selector switch pole only handles the coil splittage. Its common/collector terminal connects to the dedicated Spin-A-Split pot.

C 1 2 3
1 2 3 C

The neck humbucker split wires connect to terminal 3.

The bridge humbucker split wires connect to terminal 1.

On the standard CRL five-way selector switch, the split works in switch positions 1, 2, 4 and 5.

If you desire auto split in positions 2 and 4 but variable split in positions 1 and 5, you really need a four-pole Superswitch (or one of those Fender hybrid switches that combine one CRL eight contact wafer and one Oak Grigsby twelve contact wafer).

LOL

Funny you mentioned it not working in position 3- I noticed that too and thought I'd done something wrong, and then realised since the splits weren't connected to the middle pickup terminal, that wouldn't work. (I mean when I add in the bridge pickup to the middle pickup using the push-push knob- I'd never really do it that way when playing but when checking with a multimeter I like to check all the possible positions to make sure I haven't made a mistake with the wiring!)

I've never messed with Superswitches yet, lol. I've never really needed them, I can get all I've needed so far with push-pushes or Freeway switches. (I had one of those Fender hybrid ones you mentioned in my Deluxe Strat but when I was rewiring it I just wired it like a regular switch, lol.)

I used to like autosplits, but I quite like the sound of a full humbucker combined with the single coil now. It's a bit more fiddling on the fly, but it's a useful extra tone to have.

ICBM said:

Funkfingers said:

If you desire auto split in positions 2 and 4 but variable split in positions 1 and 5, you really need a four-pole Superswitch (or one of those Fender hybrid switches that combine one CRL eight contact wafer and one Oak Grigsby twelve contact wafer).

Or you can do it by just connecting terminal 2 to ground .

(Combining the split-selector with the Ibanez auto-split, basically.)

Thanks, that's handy to know. I could easily change my mind again regarding auto-splits!

I got it working- at least according to the multimeter. I'm too tired to restring it now, hopefully I'll get it done tomorrow. But the wiring you suggested went without a hitch, and all the resistances seem to be what I expect, so I expect it should be fine. Thanks again for all your help

Funkfingers · November 2022

Dave_Mc said:
I used to like autosplits but I quite like the sound of a full humbucker combined with the single coil now. It's a bit more fiddling on the fly, but it's a useful extra tone to have.

I am currently hurtling towards a "landmark" birthday. The older I become, the less interested I seem to be in having every possible wiring option on a guitar.

e.g. I have owned a Fender AVRI Stratocaster for just over ten years. I added a push-pull pot for the seven sounds mod. I have owned an AV Stratocaster for nearly five years. The only things I have changed on it are the capacitor value on the tone controls and the strings.

C. B. A.

At the opposite extreme, I have one of those Six String Supplies so-called Jimmy Page PCB wiring harnesses. The idea was to rig up a Les Paul as a pickup test bed, to hear which of the coil permutations might be usable. This is purely academic interest. I cannot imagine wanting to use many of those sounds in public performance.

Kittyfrisk · November 2022

Funkfingers said:

Dave_Mc said:
I used to like autosplits but I quite like the sound of a full humbucker combined with the single coil now. It's a bit more fiddling on the fly, but it's a useful extra tone to have.

I am currently hurtling towards a "landmark" birthday. The older I become, the less interested I seem to be in having every possible wiring option on a guitar.

e.g. I have owned a Fender AVRI Stratocaster for just over ten years. I added a push-pull pot for the seven sounds mod. I have owned an AV Stratocaster for nearly five years. The only things I have changed on it are the capacitor value on the tone controls and the strings.

C. B. A.

At the opposite extreme, I have one of those Six String Supplies so-called Jimmy Page PCB wiring harnesses. The idea was to rig up a Les Paul as a pickup test bed, to hear which of the coil permutations might be usable. This is purely academic interest. I cannot imagine wanting to use many of those sounds in public performance.

How would you expect to entertain all those young ladies without your Jimmy Page harness & test bed?
I would definitely hope it was not to be a public performance...

Dave_Mc · November 2022

Funkfingers said:

Dave_Mc said:
I used to like autosplits but I quite like the sound of a full humbucker combined with the single coil now. It's a bit more fiddling on the fly, but it's a useful extra tone to have.

I am currently hurtling towards a "landmark" birthday. The older I become, the less interested I seem to be in having every possible wiring option on a guitar.

e.g. I have owned a Fender AVRI Stratocaster for just over ten years. I added a push-pull pot for the seven sounds mod. I have owned an AV Stratocaster for nearly five years. The only things I have changed on it are the capacitor value on the tone controls and the strings.

C. B. A.

At the opposite extreme, I have one of those Six String Supplies so-called Jimmy Page PCB wiring harnesses. The idea was to rig up a Les Paul as a pickup test bed, to hear which of the coil permutations might be usable. This is purely academic interest. I cannot imagine wanting to use many of those sounds in public performance.

Yeah same here- I sort of went into the wiring in a blaze of glory when I finally got round to learning to solder, having wanted to for years (but not got round to it)- I figured I might as well try all those options I'd never been able to try in the past. To be fair- some are pretty useful (I think the Falbo mod/amp tone control treble bleed circuit is a useful improvement on the standard one, or indeed a treble bleed at all since a lot of guitars don't come with them stock; getting neck + bridge on an HSH is another one), but a lot are only really useful academically, as you said. It's definitely interesting to know how different things sound, but once you do, a lot of the time the industry standard wiring scheme (maybe with one or two judicious tweaks) works the best, is the easiest to wire in, and the easiest to use when you're playing the thing! If I were to wire a lot of them again, I'd probably err on the side of simplicity...

(I've never got round to trying Jimmy Page wiring- I've heard out-of-phase pickups in a few guitars because of wiring mix-ups, and I didn't much like it!)

The variable split worked perfectly the way @ICBM described it (as I said, as I expected it to, as long as I didn't manage to mess it up!), thanks very much for the help

I'm definitely getting to the point where, when it's explained to me, I can understand it and it makes sense- "Why didn't I think of that?" I just need to get to the point where I can work it out for myself!

ICBM · November 2022

I definitely like to have a lot of switching options on a guitar - I’m a ‘one guitar to a gig’ player so it makes that work well - but a lot of the extra sounds on things like the S1-switch USA Strats are of no interest because they just don’t sound right. I like simple, bold, classic sounds - things like the subtlety of blending pickups or variable splits are wasted on me

. I like one volume and one tone control.

So my favourite setup - it’s taken me a while to realise, but I finally have! - is HSH with coil splits on the humbuckers. I usually prefer both-humbuckers in the middle position even though the middle pickup alone is my favourite sound on a SSS Strat normally... but really because it’s the next best thing to a bridge humbucker.

So my main guitar has a 3-way toggle, a push-switch on the tone pot to split both pickups, and one on the volume to add the middle pickup. 12 sounds, but completely logical and easy to use, and I can get an approximation of any solidbody guitar sound. The only ones that aren’t very useful are the all-three settings, either with full humbuckers or split.

Dave_Mc · November 2022

ICBM said:

I definitely like to have a lot of switching options on a guitar - I’m a ‘one guitar to a gig’ player so it makes that work well - but a lot of the extra sounds on things like the S1-switch USA Strats are of no interest because they just don’t sound right. I like simple, bold, classic sounds - things like the subtlety of blending pickups or variable splits are wasted on me . I like one volume and one tone control.

So my favourite setup - it’s taken me a while to realise, but I finally have! - is HSH with coil splits on the humbuckers. I usually prefer both-humbuckers in the middle position even though the middle pickup alone is my favourite sound on a SSS Strat normally... but really because it’s the next best thing to a bridge humbucker.

So my main guitar has a 3-way toggle, a push-switch on the tone pot to split both pickups, and one on the volume to add the middle pickup. 12 sounds, but completely logical and easy to use, and I can get an approximation of any solidbody guitar sound. The only ones that aren’t very useful are the all-three settings, either with full humbuckers or split.

I'm pretty much the same (I agree about the S1 switch, those series settings are just horrible if you ask me!), but I really do like the middle single in an HSH pretty much because it's the only "genuine" single coil sound there. But I also find bridge + neck really useful too, which is a bit annoying- a lot of switches force you to choose between those two settings.

I only went with a variable coil split because I usually find simple coil splits to sound a bit thin, and I figured it was easier to dial it in on a scratchplate guitar using a pot (if it were rear-routed I'd probably just have used a trimpot and a push-push). Plus a pot is slightly easier to wire than a push-push (well, it would have been had I not mucked it up!).

Ironically enough, the simple coil splits actually sound pretty decent with these pickups!

I didn't know that before I wired them, and they're pretty low output (especially the neck) so I wouldn't really have expected that from the specs (or from hearing their full humbucking tones, as I had previously had them wired in without any splits at all when the guitar was HH).

ICBM · November 2022

Dave_Mc said:

I'm pretty much the same (I agree about the S1 switch, those series settings are just horrible if you ask me!), but I really do like the middle single in an HSH pretty much because it's the only "genuine" single coil sound there. But I also find bridge + neck really useful too, which is a bit annoying- a lot of switches force you to choose between those two settings.

Yes, given the option I would prefer to have the middle pickup alone rather than either of the all-3 sounds, but that would need a decent middle pickup! The one in my HSH with splits is the Duncan Vintage Rails, which is a truly awful pickup on its own, but brilliant in combination with the humbuckers because it sucks out all the mids.

I do actually have another HSH which is basically a Strat, with Strat-size humbuckers front and back and a stacked one in the middle, and a standard 5-way switch… I’ve never got around to fitting splits for the humbuckers. That one has the amp-style tone control mod though, so I can get a pseudo-split sound just by backing off the volume to about half with the tone up full.

Dave_Mc · November 2022

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I'm pretty much the same (I agree about the S1 switch, those series settings are just horrible if you ask me!), but I really do like the middle single in an HSH pretty much because it's the only "genuine" single coil sound there. But I also find bridge + neck really useful too, which is a bit annoying- a lot of switches force you to choose between those two settings.

Yes, given the option I would prefer to have the middle pickup alone rather than either of the all-3 sounds, but that would need a decent middle pickup! The one in my HSH with splits is the Duncan Vintage Rails, which is a truly awful pickup on its own, but brilliant in combination with the humbuckers because it sucks out all the mids.

I do actually have another HSH which is basically a Strat, with Strat-size humbuckers front and back and a stacked one in the middle, and a standard 5-way switch… I’ve never got around to fitting splits for the humbuckers. That one has the amp-style tone control mod though, so I can get a pseudo-split sound just by backing off the volume to about half with the tone up full.

LOL I know you're always complaining about the Vintage Rails (apart from that one use where it sounds good)- I've never tried it!

The amp tone mod is the treble bleed (pass!) on the volume where you link one end of it to the unused lug of the tone pot, isn't it? I really like it, I try to use it wherever I can (unless I can't because of no tone knob, or where a no-load tone is more useful, or on a Strat). I guess the single coil sized humbuckers sound a bit closer to singles anyway, being smaller, and the treble bleed/pass does the rest... (I know with full-sized humbuckers the treble pass definitely helps a lot with retaining sparkle, but I still wouldn't say they really sound like singles when the volume is rolled back)

ICBM · November 2022

Yes - I’m only after ‘passable approximation in a band mix’ rather than ‘sounds exactly like a true single coil’. I’ve never actually got on with real Strats, despite some of my favourite players’ signature sounds being either Strat neck or in-between - they just sound thin when I play them. So alternatives based on some sort of humbucker work better for me in general.

Dave_Mc · November 2022

ICBM said:

Yes - I’m only after ‘passable approximation in a band mix’ rather than ‘sounds exactly like a true single coil’. I’ve never actually got on with real Strats, despite some of my favourite players’ signature sounds being either Strat neck or in-between - they just sound thin when I play them. So alternatives based on some sort of humbucker work better for me in general.

LOL I do all this wiring and I end up on the bridge humbucker 95% of the time anyway!

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Tried to wire in a spin-a-split, and it didn't work

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