Dead sounding G string?

grungebob · November 2022

Hi guys after a bit of help here.

I bought a PRS SE singlecut just recently and the G string sounded a bit dead on arrival.

No problems I thought probably just needs new strings and a set up.

Nope.

I adjusted the relief as it had too much and the playability improved. I could see there was some action improvement to be had so adjusted the bridge to where I’d like it then realised the bridge pickup was causing ghost notes as it was to high, went to lower it and it popped of the springs.

By the time I’d finished fixing the bridge pickup to the lowest it could be I needed now to raise the bridge back up some to stop the warble.

After that was all sorted I realised the G string and to a lesser extent the D string sounds dead, no sizzle and sustain dies off quickly. The nut looks well cut and the saddles seem fine. Has to be the bridge though right as it’s the same across the whole fretboard?

YellowLedBetterMan · November 2022

Are you using a wound or unwound G String?

grungebob · November 2022

YellowLedBetterMan said:

Are you using a wound or unwound G String?

Plain unwound

rlw · November 2022

Get a pair of PRS plain brass studs for the bridge. They look so much nicer than the chromed ones.

https://uk.prsaccessories.com/collections/bridges-bridge-parts/products/stoptail-studs-metric-unplated-polished-brass

bertie · November 2022

is it dead acoustically as well as plugged in ?

PAL · November 2022

From you photos the G string isn't sitting in the center of the groove also cleaning the saddles may help.
It may be the set up try and set the neck straight then raise the bridge for action a bit this will cause more downward
pressure on the saddle and may help with the issue. Hope this helps.

ICBM · November 2022

The break angle looks extremely shallow on both those strings, and the G appears to not be sitting tightly down in the groove.

This can be a problem with the G string because it’s quite stiff and doesn’t bend sharply enough where it comes around the back edge of the tailpiece - you could try giving it a bit of an extra bend there and see if you can get it to lie lower down in the groove.

Judging by the damage to the post slots, it’s been messed around with quite a lot already so it may be tricky to get a good balance between action height and break angle.

grungebob · November 2022

bertie said:

is it dead acoustically as well as plugged in ?

Yes dead acoustically also.

PAL said:

From you photos the G string isn't sitting in the center of the groove also cleaning the saddles may help.
It may be the set up try and set the neck straight then raise the bridge for action a bit this will cause more downward
pressure on the saddle and may help with the issue. Hope this helps.

Yeah I noticed that this morning looking back at the photo, will try cleaning it up. The neck has the smallest amount of relief possible and raising the bridge back up would only make the action higher than I’d like but worth a go.

ICBM said:

The break angle looks extremely shallow on both those strings, and the G appears to not be sitting tightly down in the groove.

This can be a problem with the G string because it’s quite stiff and doesn’t bend sharply enough where it comes around the back edge of the tailpiece - you could try giving it a bit of an extra bend there and see if you can get it to lie lower down in the groove.

Judging by the damage to the post slots, it’s been messed around with quite a lot already so it may be tricky to get a good balance between action height and break angle.

Yeah I can see what you mean on the break angle the saddles appear to be made to match the radius of the fretboard I wonder if when/if I can’t get a balance with break angle/action if swapping saddles around might improve it?

it’s a phenomenal sounding guitar with brilliant intonation so I’ll do what I have to , to make it work.

Kittyfrisk · November 2022

ICBM has said everything that I could offer regarding possible issues & solutions.
Anyway, is that a Parker P-36 next to the PRS & how do you get on with it?

grungebob · November 2022

Kittyfrisk said:

ICBM has said everything that I could offer regarding possible issues & solutions.
Anyway, is that a Parker P-36 next to the PRS & how do you get on with it?

Ah that’s the shops picture, it was late night and I couldn’t be motivated to take my own.

It possibly is though and I bet it’s a great player if that helps?

Offset · November 2022

grungebob said:

Kittyfrisk said:

ICBM has said everything that I could offer regarding possible issues & solutions.
Anyway, is that a Parker P-36 next to the PRS & how do you get on with it?

Ah that’s the shops picture, it was late night and I couldn’t be motivated to take my own.
It possibly is though and I bet it’s a great player if that helps?

I had wondered what use you could possibly have for two sets of maracas and why they were still in their original packaging...

ICBM · November 2022

If you can’t find the right balance between a low enough action and high enough bridge, you may have to look into a replacement bridge with higher saddles relative to the wraparound.

eg this, although there are probably better ones…

https://reverb.com/uk/item/56214244-vanson-chrome-wrap-around-combination-bridge-for-les-paul-junior-jnr-melody-makers-badass-etc

elstoof · November 2022

Could you perhaps shim up the string in the saddle with something temporarily, just to eliminate the cause?

BillDL · November 2022

Take a look at the bridge where I've shown with a crudely drawn arrow in the screenshot of your previous image.

Often there is a bit of vertical play with wraparound bridges in the section of the stud that the "wings"of the bridge sit in. This translates into forward tilt when under string tension, and you would therefore have a space between the top of the front side of the bridge and the underside of the slotted stud top, and a corresponding gap between the underside of the bridge at the rear and the top of the lower "shelf" on the stud. If this play is enough it will actually reduce the string breakover angle and cause the string to have a less distinct breakover/takeoff point that is somewhere in the middle of the saddle rather than right at the front edge of the saddle. This can lead to buzzing on the saddle, poor intonation, and a generally flat sounding tone. This can be compounded if the threads of the studs and the sockets they screw down into have fairly loose tolerance and the stud can wobble/rattle in the socket a fair amount when there's no tension on the strings. When the tension is on it obviously pulls the stud forwards and effectively tilts it down a little from the horizontal plane it should be sitting in.

A couple of winds of plumber's PTFE tape around he treads of the stud can help take up the slack of the threads and keep the stud vertically aligned in the socket. It is sometimes possible to use a VERY thin washer, like the flimsy type you find under the nuts on pots of cheap electric guitars, to use as a spacer in the section of the post where the "wings" of the bridge clip into place. If the gap is too small for one of those very thin washers, then it's unlikely to be an issue, but if one will fit and still allow the bridge wings to slide into place firmly then this play is likely to be a contributing factor. You would obviously have to do this with the strings off or capo'd to the neck and loosened enough to pull the bridge out far enough to gain access to the post. You would need a washer with the correct diameter of hole to match the diameter of the stud where shown:

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/e5c01f3780bdc3e333dab06f50faaf19e34c931a277190daf8

Obviously you wouldn't be able to slide a washer over the top or up from the threaded end because of those flanges, so you would need to cut the washer, bend it out like a spring washer enough to slide on diagonally into that space, and then flatten it again. The washer can sit on top of the lower flange with the bridge wings on top, or can sit on top of the bridge wings against the underside of the top flange. I would stress that to avoid wasted time and effort,it would be a good idea to make sure that the edge of a washer WILL slide into the gap between the bridge wing and the flange (bottom or top) BEFORE starting to cut one to slide onto the stud. Usually only the very thinnest of washers are thin enough for this. If you have feeler gauges to check the gap and a vernier gauge to measure washer thicknesses it makes trial and error easier.

Oh, and use something like a 50 pence piece (7 flat sides) for the slotted head of the stud. You can file off the perimeter cusp to make it thinner if needed. Generally you shouldn't be winding the stud in and out with string tension on because you will chew the slot and also leave grooves around the collar of the post from the grub screws. A 50 pence piece is large enough to make turning the stud easier, especially if you have used PTFE tape on the threads and it no longer winds in and out easily with your fingers.

grungebob · November 2022

Thanks everyone.

Had a brief clean up and look today and I can’t see much difference between the break angle on G and the rest of the strings. Could it be the pull from the bridge humbucker? I can’t set it lower without popping off the springs but maybe a shallower pickup ring would help with the distance?

ICBM · November 2022

Actually, having looked again on a larger screen, there does seem to be clearance under the G string in the *tailpiece* (not saddle) groove - that means that you could in fact improve the break angle slightly by filing the saddle groove at a downwards angle towards the back of the bridge, so the take-off point is more accurately at the front edge of the saddle. If you want to do this, be *very* careful - you must not deepen the groove at the front edge even slightly, or it will make the problem worse.

PAL · November 2022

Have you checked that the studs are not leaning forward !

grungebob · November 2022

Right so update.

The studs had a slight forward lean. I’ve used ptfe around the studs and they are now upright. The bar does still lean into the studs some but with not enough of a gap to fit a washer.

I’ve filed the G some and it improved it. Restrung and the low E and D now also sounded dull. Had a quick pass on their saddles and it’s ok. Went back to the G and it sounded naff again.

I also tried to lower the pickup but it kept popping off its springs so I removed the mount and took it down a few mm. When I went to fit the pickup the bass side foot tap wouldn’t hold either screw so a bit of ptfe and job done.

I’m thinking of just buying a new bridge from PRS and seeing if that solves it.

I know tone pros do a version but I quite like the look of the brass saddles.

Lastly i noticed a few swirl marks I’d like to remove, how’s that done on poly?
thanks for all the suggestions

noisepolluter · November 2022

grungebob said:

Right so update.
The studs had a slight forward lean. I’ve used ptfe around the studs and they are now upright. The bar does still lean into the studs some but with not enough of a gap to fit a washer.
I’ve filled the G some and it improved it. Restrung and the low E and D now also sounded dull. Had a quick pass on their saddles and it’s ok. Went back to the G and I sound naff again.
I also tried to lower the pickup but it kept popping off its springs so I removed the mount and took it down a few mm. When I went to fit the pickup the bass side foot tap wouldn’t hold either screw so a bit of ptfe and job done.
I’m thinking of just buying a new bridge from PRS and seeing if that solves it.
I know tone pros do a version but I quite like the look of the brass saddles.
Lastly i noticed a few swirl marks I’d like to remove, how’s that done on poly?
thanks for all the suggestions

Could you try Faber locking tailpiece studs? (assuming they make the appropriate size)

This would anchor the tailpiece flat and improve the break angle over the saddles. They might also be a better fit in the threads so you hopefully wouldn’t need tape

grungebob · November 2022

@noisepolluter yeah they do it seems. Might be worth a go but it’s marginal lean at the moment.

noisepolluter · November 2022

grungebob said:

@noisepolluter yeah they do it seems. Might be worth a go but it’s marginal lean at the moment.

You never know, that might be enough to fix it.

If the studs are a better fit in the threads then you might also find the guitar is a bit more lively acoustically - that was certainly the case when I put them in my LP special.

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Dead sounding G string?

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