Dead sounding G string?

bertie · November 2022

um, if the studs arent "snug" in the threads, it kind of says to me "they aint the right ones" ??

Jonathangus · November 2022

noisepolluter said:

grungebob said:

@noisepolluter yeah they do it seems. Might be worth a go but it’s marginal lean at the moment.

You never know, that might be enough to fix it.

If the studs are a better fit in the threads then you might also find the guitar is a bit more lively acoustically - that was certainly the case when I put them in my LP special.

The way those work is that you screw them hard down on to the spacers, no? That's not going to work if the same screws are used to adjust the action - unless you're very lucky.

noisepolluter · November 2022

Jonathangus said:

noisepolluter said:

grungebob said:

@noisepolluter yeah they do it seems. Might be worth a go but it’s marginal lean at the moment.

You never know, that might be enough to fix it.

If the studs are a better fit in the threads then you might also find the guitar is a bit more lively acoustically - that was certainly the case when I put them in my LP special.

The way those work is that you screw them hard down on to the spacers, no? That's not going to work if the same screws are used to adjust the action - unless you're very lucky.

The ones for wraparound tailpieces use a hex nut which tightens underneath the tailpiece with a spanner they also provide - it’s about the same thickness as the bottom ‘lip’ on conventional studs.

The spacer ones are just for tune o matic tailpieces.

Jonathangus · November 2022

noisepolluter said:

Jonathangus said:

noisepolluter said:

grungebob said:

@noisepolluter yeah they do it seems. Might be worth a go but it’s marginal lean at the moment.

You never know, that might be enough to fix it.

If the studs are a better fit in the threads then you might also find the guitar is a bit more lively acoustically - that was certainly the case when I put them in my LP special.

The way those work is that you screw them hard down on to the spacers, no? That's not going to work if the same screws are used to adjust the action - unless you're very lucky.

The ones for wraparound tailpieces use a hex nut which tightens underneath the tailpiece with a spanner they also provide - it’s about the same thickness as the bottom ‘lip’ on conventional studs.

Ah - gotcha.

ICBM · November 2022

Forgot to say - it’s very unlikely it’s anything to do with the pickup. The bridge pickup doesn’t pull strongly on the strings because it’s too close to the end of them to have any noticeable damping effect. You can normally adjust it to within touching distance of the strings when you press them down and it makes no difference.

bertie · November 2022

ICBM said:

Forgot to say - it’s very unlikely it’s anything to do with the pickup. .

grungebob said:

bertie said:

is it dead acoustically as well as plugged in ?
Yes dead acoustically also.

ICBM · November 2022

bertie said:

ICBM said:

Forgot to say - it’s very unlikely it’s anything to do with the pickup. .

grungebob said:

bertie said:

is it dead acoustically as well as plugged in ?
Yes dead acoustically also.

Over-high *neck* pickups affect the acoustic sound too, so that wouldn’t mean anything. It’s the fact that it’s the bridge pickup which makes it unlikely.

There’s a small possibility there’s some sort of bad resonance in the guitar itself too, even though it doesn’t seem note-specific if it does it up the whole length of the string.

enjo · November 2022

Can you add some more winds (with new strings) on the tuning posts? It would give you more break angle over the nut which is something I've seen before. The B & G strings will have the least angle as the tuners are the furthest away from the nut.

BillDL · November 2022

That's a pity @grungebob ; I was hopeful that all the little things you addressed might have made enough difference to improve things. I think it's the nature of the beast with those saddles and the bridge design. There isn't a straight side-on view of the saddles, but from the partial side-on they look pretty flat and devoid of an actual apex like standard saddles, so they have a takeoff point at the leading edges rather than a breakover point. The design of the bridge therefore is much like the fixed compensation PRS style wraparound bridge with the added benefit of moveable saddles. Functionality therefore is entitely dependent on the precut string grooves at the back of the bridge being on a steady incline and the height and rising angle of the string slots in the saddles being such that constant and sufficient downward pressure in all those areas is maintained. As @ICBM was discussing earlier, if the string guide grooves in the body of the bridge are higher than the saddles, or if the angle they are cut is wrong, it can leave gaps and insufficient downward pressure for it to work as well as it should.

The edge of the string slots right at the leading edge of the saddles (or the "ramps" of the fixed compensation bridge variant) needs to be like a ski jump with a very defined cliff edge takeoff point for the strings to leave them at the highest point. If the edges of these slots are rounded over as though the edge of the cliff has started crumbling, you are likely to get buzzing and/or deadened string vibration. This is something I mentioned in another thread while referring to the fixed compensation PRS style wraparound bridge, but the principle applies equally to individual saddles.

You can't just swap the saddles for pyramid Tun-o-Matic style ones with a sharp apex, because they would be too high and you probably wouldn't be able to lower the studs enough to get a low enough action. It would also defeat the design feature of having a low profile comfortable bridge with no sharp edges. Assuming you can afford to buy a suitable drop-in replacement bridge I would be inclined to suggest you have reached that stage now.

There IS one other thing to look for BEFORE you do that though. Check for cracks in the body of the bridge. I once had issues with dead notes on a Fender Flame guitar (like the Robben Ford Fender Esprit). It was equipped with a Schaller made Tun-o-Matic with roller saddles and worked perfectly well for years until the G and B strings began to sound dead. The bridge had a hairline crack all the way through what amounted to cast pot metal. It was very difficult to see when the bridge was off, but under string tension and with a magnifying glass I could see it opening up slightly. Because it was diagonal the bridge still had enough support to prevent it sagging down, but the crack was enough to be deadening strings. I can only think that the hard case was bumped hard enough on the front to push the bridge down. A replacement bridge restored all the clarity again. Your bridge is wider and more solidly built, but it would still be worth having a very close look at it for cracking while it's on the guitar.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/de2e05c47b9b1f09c24121c4b1efc66bd164582a8b8608fcf2

grungebob · November 2022

@BillDL thanks Bill, will check it out for cracks.

I’ve got the G much improved but it’s not 100% more like 80% vs the 40% it was. The bridge shows signs of acidic wear from previous owner from resting hand etc so wondering if that’s what’s worn the edge.

I’ve ordered some locking studs first to see if that works and if not I’ll get a new PRS bridge.

57Deluxe · November 2022

is that grime in you tailpiece or a bad casting??

BillDL · November 2022

grungebob said:

..............
Lastly i noticed a few swirl marks I’d like to remove, how’s that done on poly?

There are loads of brand name polishing and buffing compounds, but I have found that ordinary T-Cut for cars or household Brasso works just as well for a fraction of the price as long as you use very soft rags like old cotton T-shirts, change the rags often or keep folding over for the rubbing part, and use a dry clean rag for the buffing. It does take a bit of elbow grease to rub, buff, rub, buff, etc, but it will take out swirl marks and both those products are pretty safe on hard polyurethane/polyester finishes. They dry white, so try not to get it into areas where it will be hard to buff out. Although I have found both of these products to be safe on guitar plastics, I would generally avoid them just in case.

inewham · November 2022

This could just be me but the G saddle looks slightly rotated clockwise relative to both the other saddles and the tailpiece itself. As a result the string sits in the middle of the V on the way in but to one side on the exit (neck side)
Could the adjuster screw be slightly bent? You could try turning it to see if the saddle rocks as you turn.

bencowling81 · November 2022

Have you tried unscrewing the G saddle completely, rotating it 180 degrees, and putting it back? Possible someone took it off before and put it back in the wrong way round?

grungebob · November 2022

Thanks all. Haven’t had chance to do owt last few days as had an unexpected hospital visit.

Alls good though so should be able to get back to it soon.

PAL · November 2022

noisepolluter said:

grungebob said:

Right so update.
The studs had a slight forward lean. I’ve used ptfe around the studs and they are now upright. The bar does still lean into the studs some but with not enough of a gap to fit a washer.
I’ve filled the G some and it improved it. Restrung and the low E and D now also sounded dull. Had a quick pass on their saddles and it’s ok. Went back to the G and I sound naff again.
I also tried to lower the pickup but it kept popping off its springs so I removed the mount and took it down a few mm. When I went to fit the pickup the bass side foot tap wouldn’t hold either screw so a bit of ptfe and job done.
I’m thinking of just buying a new bridge from PRS and seeing if that solves it.
I know tone pros do a version but I quite like the look of the brass saddles.
Lastly i noticed a few swirl marks I’d like to remove, how’s that done on poly?
thanks for all the suggestions

Could you try Faber locking tailpiece studs? (assuming they make the appropriate size)

This would anchor the tailpiece flat and improve the break angle over the saddles. They might also be a better fit in the threads so you hopefully wouldn’t need tape

I agree I fitted a Faber wrap over tail piece with brass intonation bars and the locking studs to my My Gibson Original
Series LP Junior and what a difference like night and day. I got mine from Glued to Music on line. Hope this helps.

grungebob · November 2022

Still awaiting the Faber locking studs but the G is much improved after filing the saddle.

I’ve actually been really enjoying the guitar, it’s so well intonated and the pickup combo has me lost in my playing , I’ve hardly used any pedals for days with it which is always a good sign I’m going to be using this guitar a lot going forward.
I’ve had a lot of core and S2’s plus SE’s in the past and this wide fat neck profile is really beginning to feel like home.

grungebob · December 2022

So the Faber locking studs arrived and they’re too long. Took 3 weeks to arrive and they won’t work grrr. You can’t set the action low enough as the studs start pulling up the inserts as the Fabers are 25 mm long and the PRS ones are 21mm.

Anyone want to buy some metric aged studs?

ICBM · December 2022

grungebob said:

So the Faber locking studs arrived and they’re too long. Took 3 weeks to arrive and they won’t work grrr. You can’t set the action low enough as the studs start pulling up the inserts as the Fabers are 25 mm long and the PRS ones are 21mm.

https://www.toolstation.com/eclipse-junior-hacksaw/p30695

hollywoodrox · December 2022

grungebob said:

Thanks all. Haven’t had chance to do owt last few days as had an unexpected hospital visit.
Alls good though so should be able to get back to it soon.

Hope you’re ok mate . All the best for Xmas & the festive season

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Dead sounding G string?

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