School Me On Speakers

Adji · September 2014

So I have experimented with just about everything at great length in my rig but ever taken much thought of speakers. I've always been a kinda of 'that'll do' guy when it comes to speakers.

For several years I have actually been using Marshall 'Gold Back' speakers. I think I like them because they don't produce a great deal of low end and the mid is quite prominent. In the past I've tried V30s (not a big fan although they do make you stand out) and Rocket 50s.

So, what should I be looking for? I have a V30 lying around and I'm considering putting it back in the 2x12 and mixing it with something else, perhaps the classic GH50?

It is something I've never taken much interest in so treat me like a total noob. I like the Marshalls, but if these are crap speakers then I'm wondering just how good my rig would sound with good speakers?

Dave_Mc · September 2014

What is your rig?

Voxman · September 2014

I have a Marshall Goldback in my JCM2000 DSL401. These are not thought that well of on the Marshall Forum, although its been adequate for my purposes. However, I might change it in the future.

Speakers are very personal and everyone will have their own preferences. In addition to sounding very different tone wise, some speakers will break up earlier than others (the point at which you start to get distortion from the speaker) and some speakers will be louder than others. Their loudness is nothing to do with the speakers power rating eg 60w - that merely relates to how much power they can handle. So, if you have a 50w amp, you'll typically need at least a 50w speaker although its usual to have a speaker a little higher eg 60-75w for 'safety', although most speakers are conservatively rated anyway.

If the speaker can't cope with the power (lets say you put in a 30w speaker in a 50w amp) and cranked the amp, its likely you could blow the speaker and you might damage the amp.

The loudness of the speaker is determined by its 'sensitivity' rating (shown in decibels) which you'll see on the manufacturers website. Say you had two identical amps - other than one was 50w and the other 100w. If you put the same sensitivity speaker in each one, say 97dB, the 100w amp will naturally be louder. But as a general rule, an extra 3-4dB is equivalent to doubling the amps output so the 100w amp with the same speaker will only be 3-4dB louder. But if you put a 101dB speaker in the 50w amp it will actually be as loud if not louder than the 100w amp with the 97dB speaker.

I put a Vintage 30 speaker in my Laney Cub 12R to replace the cheap stock speaker. I chose the V30 because its 100dB and gives me more volume, and I bought it half price. Its good for rock, and has a nice top-end to help cut through the mix. Slash swears by them, and they are favourite of many rock guitarists (especially in 4x12 cabs). But it isn't the 'warmest' speaker and doesn't give the bottom end of some speakers. For warmth, something like a Celestion G12M Greenback or the new Celestion Creamback are favoured by many.

Speaker cone material & magnets influence their tone greatly. Most speakers have a ceramic magnet. Alnico speakers (eg Blue Alnico's - the name Alnico is from the alloy used to make the magnets - a mix of aluminium (Al), nickel (Ni) and cobalt (Co)) helps to give a more chimey sound, but are still quite warm sounding and tend to have an early break-up. Blue Alnico's are one of the most expensive speakers though, but strongly favoured by eg Vox AC30 owners - an AC30 with Blue Alnico's sounds quite different, and much louder (from memory I think its 101dB), than one fitted with Celestion G12M Greenbacks. Another type of speaker are those with magnets made from Neodymium, which are very efficient and about half the physical weight of other speakers - but bacause Neodymium is in shorter supply currently, prices tend to be higher. An example is the Celestion Vintage Century but there are others too.

The other thing to watch out for is speaker impedance, and you must make sure that this is the right impedance for your amp - most typically, speakers come in 8 Ohm and 16 Ohm variances but there can sometimes be other options too. If you put the wrong impedance speaker in your amp, at best you won't get the best volume and tone from it; at worst you could seriously damage your speaker and amp.

Another potentially confusing piece of info that you might see in the speaker description is a frequency label such as '55Hz' or '75 Hz' - which indicates the speakers frequency range. The following introduction to guitar speakers (with some good myth busting tips) will explain this better than I can:

http://mojaveampworks.com/2011/02/the-mojave-perspective-on-speakers-for-guitar-amplifiers/

So, depending on your budget and the type of music you play, you should choose a speaker that has the right impedance, the right power rating, and one that will deliver the right tone and break-up characteristics for you. Another factor is that not all speakers have exactly the same bolt fitting measurements and you should double check this from the manufacturers specs.

Buying speakers is not in-expensive. So how do you find what's right for you?

manufacturer websites - many, in addition to descriptions, will give you an audio sample to compare. Some will have more top end, others more mids or bottom end. Some will be very warm sounding, others harsher, and break-up levels will be different. Some speakers are designed to break-up early (these will help give more distorted tones at lower volumes) others with late break-up (these might be suitable if for example you want a clean tone at higher volumes).

Live listening - Wherever possible, try to find a store and listen to different types of speakers. Because different speakers will sound different in different types of amp/cab its not a perfect comparison. If possible, try to play a 'head' through different speaker cabs containing different speakers, to see which tones you prefer. And play these at different volume levels to judge whether the 'break-up' is right for you.

There's no scientific way of doing this I'm afraid and sometimes trial and error is unavoidable. Opinions on forums can be helpful too, but because we all hear different things just because I might like a particular speaker doesn't mean it will necessarily suit you.

Manufacturers sites will also often give you a basic introduction to speakers. I've put a few links below to help you get started:

http://celestion.com/

http://www.eminence.com/

http://www.jensentone.com/ ;

There are also some very good you-tube speaker comparison vids. Here's a few:

Hope this helps to get you started

Rich

ThePrettyDamned · September 2014

Bookmarked this page for the wisdom and demos in the post above, nice one!

guitarfishbay · September 2014

IMHO you can't really go off people's word descriptions because everyone hears things differently - one man's cut through is another's 'harsh', and both can be correct depending on situation and setup. Also you can't pick on what sounds good in isolation if your goal is to pick something that sounds good with a band or on a recording, and vice versa. You can definitely get a good idea from forums and sound clips, but ultimately you're going to have to try things in the intended environment yourself, to fully know. I do think speaker type makes a huge difference to tone.

For example V30s. They're my favourite speakers and I've had 1x12s, closed and open 2x12s, standard and oversized 4x12s with them in. I've also had the Mesa and Chinese versions, but let's not complicate things too much just yet!

IMO V30s work best in 2x12 or 4x12 closed back cabs that are over 1 foot deep IMO, ideally the full 14 inches or so of a 4x12. Otherwise the forward midrange, lack of real top, and tight bottom end make for a small and shouty sounding cabinet. Give them a big cabinet though and they pretty much sit an amp right where you want a rock guitar to be, providing your amp is one that gets on with V30s (not all amps pair well with all speakers).

I do not agree that they're not warm - they have less top end than most speakers. Compared to a Greenback, a V30 sounds dull and lacking top end. But again I would only recommend them for bigger closed back cabinets myself, otherwise the tight bass and forward mid range makes them a bit too screaming sounding. I'd suggest that for smaller cabinets, you'd get a more pleasing tone out of something with more low end, to compensate for the cabinet dimensions.

I honestly believe speaker choice, followed by cabinet type, to be extremely important for guitar tone. If you have an amp modeller you can prove this by flicking through different cab IRs, try a V30 IR then a T75 one or a Greenback one - the differences are massive, it can almost be like playing a different amp.

HollowAxis · September 2014

I didn't get into trying different speakers at all until a few months ago.

Was happily playing whatever was in the amp I was using for years.

Speakers make such a drastic difference, I'm sort of hooked now.

I've tried a few Eminence models in the last few months. (You'll see a Cannabis Rex 16 Ohm up for sale here, that's one I tried and liked but I didn't keep the amp it was in, and it doesn't work in the new amp I got, ohms don't match).

But yeah overall, I think I've found a new hobby, swapping speakers...

Voxman · September 2014

Another V30 fan! - and I agree that these are best in bigger cabs. Weird though - in my Laney Cub12R its actually bringing out the top end and its clearer and more defined than a Greenback which is why I went for it but isn't giving as much low-end grunt as some other speakers. Celestion describes the v30 as:

"Our most revealing speaker, the Vintage 30 features enormously detailed and complex overtones, a warm low-end, a famously rich vocal mid-range and a beautifully detailed top-end. Used singly to reveal the complexities in hand- wired boutique amps, or in quartets for a wonderfully intricate vintage 3D crunch, the Vintage 30 sound has been captured on thousands of recordings from a diverse range of notable players including Slash, Steve Stevens and Peter Frampton."

Just proves the point doesn't it that we all hear different things and that speakers will sound different in different amps/cabs/ situations.

Out of interest, here's a home-made demo vid I did with the Laney Cub 12R after I put the V30 in:

Adji · September 2014

Thanks everyone! Lots to take on board here

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School Me On Speakers

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