1973 strat and couch urine

NewTimer · February 2023

Title’s correct, if not a bit “click baity”, but it tells the story! I recently cleaned up a beautiful 90’s epiphone LP and swapped out upgraded pots/knobs and a switch for a friend. Thanks to ICMB and crew I found a short that they helped me fix. Thankfully my friend appreciated his rejuvenated LP enough to throw me some cash. He then tells me about his 1973 strat.

He brings it over one day and asks if I could clean it up and replace the pots on it as well. Basically just do the same job.

I open the case and immediately am hit with the stench of cat urine. The story goes that he left it on a couch in his living room, the cat did it’s business, and it was days before he noticed.

The guitar is beautiful, he’s had it since 1973, his first guitar. Clear wood finish, maple neck, black pick guard, just classic, beautiful. Neck and fretboard is worn, almost gray from decades of use.

My question is how can I safely clean cat urine, and imprinted / stuck on leather seat residue from what I assume is a nitro finish? He’s said he doesn’t want the finish stripped. I told him it might be required, but that I don’t have the capacity to do a quality nitro finish at the moment.

He still has the guitar at the moment so I can’t provide pictures, but I will as soon as I’m able. I’m thinking naphtha to be my safest option. I’m assuming due to the age of the guitar I can be confident that it is in fact a nitro finish?

While I understand it might require pictures for a diagnosis, I’m curious if this is comfortably possibly or should I recommend that he take it to someone who can strip and refinish it? I have no intentions of ruining this man’s 50 year old finish on his guitar.

while I appreciate the business of my pal, I do wish he would stick to upgrades and take better care of his guitars.

thanks everyone.

BillDL · February 2023

Was the seat definitely leather, or is it the kind of slightly cheaper "leather" that has a plastic-based coating that's embossed to resemble leather grain and make it more resilient than full leather?

The reason I ask this is that you mention "imprinted / stuck on leather seat residue". If the guitar does have a nitrocellulose lacquer finish certain plastics can eat into the finish, and perhaps whatever is in cat pee (ammonia for one) has softened the lacquer enough for a combination of plastic surfaced leather and the urine itself to soften the lacquer. I would say that the primary objective right now should be to wipe off any residual cat pee and then leave the guitar for quite a while to try and ensure that the lacquer hardens a bit before trying to buff out any imprints.

I stand to be corrected on this, but I am sure that during the mid-70s Fender was using polyester for their finishes. It would take a fairly harsh chemical or solvent to eat into a polyester finish, so perhaps the one in question was one of the ones where they were spraying nitrocellulose over the hard sealing coat applied by dipping. Experts that know more than me will provide accurate information here.

As far as the stinky germy aspect is concerned, often you have to use a live enzyme product on urine to kill off the bacteria that can live on the residue and leave a stench (think porous cement grouting between tiles below a urinal in a gent's public toilet). This would certainly apply if any of the pee has got under the pickguard into the control and pickup cavity where it could have soaked into the wood.

As you mentioned, Naptha (liquid lighter fluid) SHOULD be safe enough on nitro and other finishes, BUT I would suggest leaving it in a warm dry place for a week or so to try and re-harden the finish BEFORE using anything on it.

NewTimer · February 2023

Brilliant, thanks BillDL. I should say that from what I understand the guitar has been in this state for well over 6 months. Hurts my soul a tad. If nothing else the original hard shell case will probably never be the same again. Once I have the guitar in hand I’ll try to get a better idea of the damage. I suspect it was some sort of faux leather.

When I saw it I remember a lot of little bits of leather stuck to it, hopefully they’re not fully embossed in a sense. I suppose I could carefully T-cut and polish back out if I need to after cleaning.

WezV · February 2023

Try T-cut first... it might get you most of the way there

Old cat urine is nearly impossible to remove, even with the enzyme sprays. You might be able to get it a lot better with those though. Then keep something scented in the case to mask the remaining smell

Paul_C · February 2023

BillDL · February 2023

The fact that the guitar is natural finish on (presumably) ash body with a fairly pronounced grain, it probably won't be as crucial if it can't be buffed back to a mirror sheen. What you don't want is anything that might turn the lacquer milky. I think T-Cut should be safe enough, especially after 6 months of "drying".

Grangousier · February 2023

Title’s correct, if not a bit “click baity”

Correct up to a point. I came in wondering how furniture urinated.

ICBM · February 2023

The finish is not nitro, it will be polyurethane. While not as fragile as nitro it's not as impervious to solvents and chemicals as polyester, and they can indeed react with (especially) vinyl if left in contact for long enough. The bad news is that it may have penetrated a lot deeper than just the surface and will now be effectively impossible to remove. Photos of the damage might be useful to see how bad it is.

If the black pickguard is original the guitar is from no earlier than 1975, or the pickguard has been replaced (what colour are the pickup covers and knobs?) but memories can be uncertain when things are this long ago!

sweepy · February 2023

I’m sure those 70’s Strats aren’t Nitro finishes

Bork · February 2023

WezV said:

Try T-cut first... it might get you most of the way there

Old cat urine is nearly impossible to remove, even with the enzyme sprays. You might be able to get it a lot better with those though. Then keep something scented in the case to mask the remaining smell

Try alcohol, like any unused hand disinfectant left over from COVID. The principle being alcohol helps clean grease off surfaces and the stinky component in cat pee is oil based, which is why washing with soap and water never works. Even Cillit Bang would be better than nothing, so long as the pee hasn't soaked into the wood or into rough finished places like the control cavity.

BillDL · February 2023

You have to watch with "alcohol" unless you know that's all it is. I always used to use Methylated Spirit for sanitising and wiping grime off guitars with "poly" finishes. I just bought the stuff from Asda, Screwfix, or B&Q. It never harmed any of the plastics or lacquer in all the years I used it. About 2 years ago I bought the same Screwfix "No Nonsense" Meths and it was immediately apparent that there was some other pungent solvent in it in addition to the alcohol. It smelled like Acetone. When I tested it on an inconspicuous place on a "poly" finished guitar it turned the lacquer milky and softened it, and it ate into scratchplate plastic. I now just use Zippo naptha-based lighter fluid and won't let Meths anywhere near a guitar. Given that some hand sanitisers contain glycerine or other chemicals as well as 60% to 70% alcohol, I would be nervous using any "Covid" hand sanitisers without testing on an area that's covered by the pickguard.

ICBM · February 2023

Cheap vodka or gin would actually be definitely safe - apart from microscopic traces of botanicals which will do no harm, it won’t contain anything other than ethanol and water.

WezV · February 2023

I haven't tried alcohol. I would suggest rubbing alcohol if going that way. Usually 70% isopropyl alcohol, and fairly cheap

elstoof · February 2023

I use bioethanol camping stove fuel in place of meths now, the dye in meths keeps staining things when I inevitably spill it and can never be sure what other additives they put in. The camping fuel is almost pure ethanol and food safe, plus dissolves shellac properly for French polishing too, unlike isopropyl

NewTimer · March 2023

Okay, sounds like my options are isopropyl, camping fuel, or naptha? I have all of those available currently. I do not have T cut, is that the most recommended option?

Here’s some photos of the situation. He has specifically asked to do what I can to clean it, but if I think I’ll ruin it that he’d rather the finish be left alone and just stick to the electronics swap out.

The back of the guitar seems fine. It’s definitely a beautiful strat. For a fact, either I misheard the date he gave or he’s incorrect. Probably my error.

I’m going to start swapping out the pots for him tonight and will wait to see if anyone has any other input based off of the pictures before I touch the finish. Thanks everyone!

WezV · March 2023

Alcohol first as its the least likely to cause further issues. Get rid of any gunk, then buff with abraive/t-cut if needed

ICBM · March 2023

That looks like the finish has softened to either the full thickness or a fair amount of it. It’s unlikely that any chemical or polish will restore it, it will always remain soft and sticky. If so, the only option is a refinish.

It could be a refinish already, it doesn’t look quite right for an original Fender finish, it looks more like a high gloss furniture lacquer. It’s definitely not an all-original ‘73 Strat - no serial number on the neckplate, so it would be on the headstock which would make it late 70s. If it’s not on the headstock then the neck and neckplate don’t belong together. The tortoiseshell guard and backplate aren’t original, and if it’s late 70s then neither are the pickups (staggered poles), covers and knobs. The body contouring and bridge block are right for late 70s.

Sorry if this isn’t what you wanted to hear, but it has a bearing on the best course of action.

NewTimer · March 2023

I’ll try the alcohol first WezV.

ICBM, yeah something seems amiss there. Serial is on the headstock so you’re right about that.

I’m just helping this guy out, his guitar is his guitar, regardless of what he says has or hasn’t been done. When I opened up the guitar there had definitely been routing done to accommodate a humbucker in the bridge position at some point down the road.

You say it affects course of action, any recommendations apart from a strip and refinish?

I’ll start with the alcohol and ask him about cutting down with T cut.

ICBM · March 2023

NewTimer said:

ICBM, yeah something seems amiss there. Serial is on the headstock so you’re right about that.

I’m just helping this guy out, his guitar is his guitar, regardless of what he says has or hasn’t been done. When I opened up the guitar there had definitely been routing done to accommodate a humbucker in the bridge position at some point down the road.

You say it affects course of action, any recommendations apart from a strip and refinish?

Definitely late 70s - "S" plus the first digit indicates the year, although Fender habitually used up left-over decals so the actual date can be up to two or even possibly three years later at the very end around 1981-82, as production numbers were falling rapidly at this point.

The finish looks more Fender-like when you see it under the guard like that, but I'm still not convinced. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a stamp like that ‘1998’ in a Fender either, I think that’s more likely an indication of when some of the work was done. Regardless, given all the other changes it's now not worth worrying about the originality of the finish, so I would just have it stripped and refinished. You could even re-contour the body to early-70s style with a deeper forearm cut at the same time, which might make it more comfortable and slightly lighter!

It’s certainly a beautiful bit of wood and should be a nice guitar. I would just make the best job you can of it and not worry about the supposed ‘value’ in keeping it original when it already isn’t.

wolsnah · March 2023

Nature's Miracle will alleviate any smell issues but not sure how safe it would be to use on a guitar finish. Works great on material, be that fabric or leather. Bicarbonate of soda will also help draw out bad odours.

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1973 strat and couch urine

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