D string always sharp.

GuyBoden · February 2023

D string very sharp compared to other strings..

I am building/assembling a 7 string fan fret. It has a Koloss Headless bridge.

To get a correct intonation, the D3 string saddle position has to be a lot nearer to the bridge compared to the other saddles.

I'm using a Peterson Strobestomp for tuning and cross referencing with other tuners.

For intonation, I compare tuning between the 3rd and 15th frets.

I'm also using very, very light gauge strings, 20 plain gauge for D3, with a low 1.2mm action.

Any ideas what could be causing this?

Many thanks

Edit: But, it's in tune, so the intonation might be correct.

Winny_Pooh · February 2023

So it's just visually further from the other saddles? That's fine. The reason could be due to that particular D string gauge, saddle height and left to right saddle placement.

GuyBoden · February 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

So it's just visually further from the other saddles? That's fine. The reason could be due to that particular D string gauge, saddle height and left to right saddle placement.

Many thanks, I will try a 24 gauge wound string and check the intonation, but I would prefer a more balanced set of tensions on each string with the 20 gauge.

Edit: I tried a 26 gauge string, this moved the saddle in line with the other saddles for correct intonation.

Excellent advice, many thanks again.

ICBM · March 2023

A 20 gauge plain string is a nightmare for intonation, especially tuned as low as that - normally it would be a G. You do need a wound string really.

GuyBoden · March 2023

ICBM said:

A 20 gauge plain string is a nightmare for intonation, especially tuned as low as that - normally it would be a G. You do need a wound string really.

Thanks, you are correct, it was a nightmare to intonate, I was trying for very, very low tension and action, with four plain treble strings, which would make tapping easier.

I will have to compromise and use a wound 22 gauge. With an increase in overall equal(ish) string tension.

Compromised string gauges shown below, but D3 will be 22w wound:

ICBM · March 2023

Check the tension, you may need a 24W - I normally find a 22W is about equal tension with an 18P. Looks like the A could do with being a gauge lighter as well, probably a 30W.

GuyBoden · March 2023

Many, thanks, the physics involved with wound/plain string types and intonation is mind bogglingly complex to my brain.

ICBM · March 2023

GuyBoden said:

Many, thanks, the physics involved with wound/plain string types and intonation is mind bogglingly complex to my brain.

A good rule of thumb is that a plain string has about the same tension as a wound string 20-25% larger. It does vary slightly depending on the core-to-wrap ratio, which is sometimes different for different manufacturers.

But the intonation is almost entirely dependent on the core gauge - or if anything flatter than how you would expect a plain string of that gauge to intonate - so is much flatter than the equivalent plain string, hence the '2/4' stagger of a wound-3rd set vs the '3/3' stagger with a plain 3rd. (In 6-string sets obviously!)

Does that make any sense?

GuyBoden · March 2023

ICBM said:

GuyBoden said:

Many, thanks, the physics involved with wound/plain string types and intonation is mind bogglingly complex to my brain.

A good rule of thumb is that a plain string has about the same tension as a wound string 20-25% larger. It does vary slightly depending on the core-to-wrap ratio, which is sometimes different for different manufacturers.

But the intonation is almost entirely dependent on the core gauge - or if anything flatter than how you would expect a plain string of that gauge to intonate - so is much flatter than the equivalent plain string, hence the '2/4' stagger of a wound-3rd set vs the '3/3' stagger with a plain 3rd. (In 6-string sets obviously!)

Does that make any sense?

Many thanks, I think I understand, so for a very low tension, 17-18lbs G string, I'm current using a 24 wound as you advised, but, I should also be able to use a 22 plain string?

Obviously, the very low tension of my setup seems to be causing intonation problems, but it works.

Excellent knowledge and advice, thanks again.

ICBM · March 2023

GuyBoden said:

Many thanks, I think I understand, so for a very low tension, 17-18lbs G string, I'm current using a 24 wound as you advised, but, I should also be able to use a 22 plain string?

I would never use a 22 plain string - too thick, and it will sound awful (clangy and 'boingy') as well as being difficult to intonate, especially if tuned down. It will be about equivalent in tension to a 26 or 28 wound string. The heaviest plain string I find works well is an 18 or 19 (if you can find one). From your tension chart it looks like you're looking for more like 16-17lb than 17-18, if you wanted to try a 19P it probably won't be too far off that.

GuyBoden · March 2023

ICBM said:

GuyBoden said:

Many thanks, I think I understand, so for a very low tension, 17-18lbs D string, I'm current using a 24 wound as you advised, but, I should also be able to use a 22 plain string?

I would never use a 22 plain string - too thick, and it will sound awful (clangy and 'boingy') as well as being difficult to intonate, especially if tuned down. It will be about equivalent in tension to a 26 or 28 wound string. The heaviest plain string I find works well is an 18 or 19 (if you can find one). From your tension chart it looks like you're looking for more like 16-17lb than 17-18, if you wanted to try a 19P it probably won't be too far off that.

Sorry, I got it all wrong, I should have stated I was wondering if I could use a 22p for a low tension D string, instead of 24w as you recommended. Thanks

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D string always sharp.

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