Dovetail Joints in Pine

strat84 · March 2023

Hello all,

I'm looking at building a pedalboard and quite fancy trying my hand at dovetail joints. I have some left over pine from a cab build but wasn't sure how well the joints would turn out in softwood with hand tools.

Here's a couple of pics from when I built the cab. This was done using a jig and router, the pine is about 20mm thick. It turned out quite well but I've been researching dovetails and apparently pine can be problematic, would I be better off with something like poplar? Thanks for any help

DiscoStu · March 2023

That looks like a finger joint, not dovetail.

DiscoStu · March 2023

Did you use a dovetail bit with your jig, or a straight bit? ...

strat84 · March 2023

DiscoStu said:

That looks like a finger joint, not dovetail.

Yes, I used finger joints in the cab build but want to try dovetails with hand tools this time. I was just showing how the pine did with a router.

ICBM · March 2023

DiscoStu said:

That looks like a finger joint, not dovetail.

It is, and they’re fine in pine - it’s just that pine isn’t really hard and strong enough to cut the accurate reverse angles you need for a dovetail.

In fact, with modern glues a finger joint is just as strong as a dovetail anyway. The traditional woodworking joints were all developed when glues were weaker and really only locked already tight-fitting parts into place to stop them moving, rather than providing the main strength.

strat84 · March 2023

DiscoStu said:

Did you use a dovetail bit with your jig, or a straight bit? ...

I used a straight bit. I actually built the jig for the finger joints but didn't really fancy that for dovetails

strat84 · March 2023

ICBM said:

DiscoStu said:

That looks like a finger joint, not dovetail.

It is, and they’re fine in pine - it’s just that pine isn’t really hard and strong enough to cut the accurate reverse angles you need for a dovetail.

In fact, with modern glues a finger joint is just as strong as a dovetail anyway. The traditional woodworking joints were all developed when glues were weaker and really only locked already tight-fitting parts into place to stop them moving, rather than providing the main strength.

Cheers

To be honest I'm not that concerned about the strength, I just thought it would look a bit nicer with dovetails while it won't be covered

DiscoStu · March 2023

Apologies, I should have read the OP twice for clarity. In theory yes, dovetails are stronger as their shape makes them lock together - with glue for extra strength - and with finger joints it is the glue that holds them. But as ICBM says, modern glues are very strong. Many are stronger than the wood itself. I like Titebond. Good PVA is fine. I used to occasionally use Cascamite back in my cabinet maker days but it's a bit messy to mix up but is very strong.
Pine is soft so you can sometimes chip the edges of the dovetails when cutting them so you don't get a clean joint and might need to fill and sand any holes for a smooth finish. Once glued up though it will be perfectly strong enough. Harder woods cut cleaner.

strat84 · March 2023

DiscoStu said:

Apologies, I should have read the OP twice for clarity. In theory yes, dovetails are stronger as their shape makes them lock together - with glue for extra strength - and with finger joints it is the glue that holds them. But as ICBM says, modern glues are very strong. Many are stronger than the wood itself. I like Titebond. Good PVA is fine. I used to occasionally use Cascamite back in my cabinet maker days but it's a bit messy to mix up but is very strong.
Pine is soft so you can sometimes chip the edges of the dovetails when cutting them so you don't get a clean joint and might need to fill and sand any holes for a smooth finish. Once glued up though it will be perfectly strong enough. Harder woods cut cleaner.

No worries, I probably should have explained it better

Thanks for the advice. Yes, this is what I'm worried about with the pine being so soft. I may just buy something a bit harder and perhaps two different colours.

ICBM · March 2023

I think finger joints look better in pine, exactly because it’s easier to get them consistent and tight than dovetails. Dovetails look nicer in hardwoods, if they’re made accurately.

I remember having to make them with only hand tools in woodwork… not easy without practice. Even harder to do some of the clever cabinet-maker stuff, eg where the dovetail isn’t visible on one face, for things like drawer fronts.

strat84 · March 2023

ICBM said:

I think finger joints look better in pine, exactly because it’s easier to get them consistent and tight than dovetails. Dovetails look nicer in hardwoods, if they’re made accurately.

I remember having to make them with only hand tools in woodwork… not easy without practice. Even harder to do some of the clever cabinet-maker stuff, eg where the dovetail isn’t visible on one face, for things like drawer fronts.

Those are the one's I was thinking of doing, half blind dovetails I think they're called.. probably not the best idea for my first go!

elstoof · March 2023

Dovetails don’t usually look very good if you’re rounding them over, the angled lines get distorted in a not particularly attractive way. Half blinds avoid that, Mesa used to do their cabs with half blind dovetails. Sod doing those by hand though

Funkfingers · March 2023

strat84 said:
pine being so soft.

I have one of the 2011 Fender redwood Telecasters. I only have to look at it the wrong way and the body marks.

strat84 · March 2023

elstoof said:

Dovetails don’t usually look very good if you’re rounding them over, the angled lines get distorted in a not particularly attractive way. Half blinds avoid that, Mesa used to do their cabs with half blind dovetails. Sod doing those by hand though

They do look pretty tough by hand. I might go for some nice small finger joints instead.

strat84 · March 2023

@DiscoStu Could you recommend anywhere to buy wood? I've found these on Ebay which look a good size but have no idea of the quality or if the price is good -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385244778299?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=nkpvwaqdtv2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=Bq_PmGF8QpG&var=653127774492&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385469390194?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oTeiDRKZSIq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=Bq_PmGF8QpG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

elstoof · March 2023

I’ve had good service from Surrey timbers, nicely dimensioned and straight boards

strat84 · March 2023

elstoof said:

I’ve had good service from Surrey timbers, nicely dimensioned and straight boards

Thanks @elstoof, will look into them

DiscoStu · March 2023

I haven't been in the furniture game for over 25 years @strat84 so wouldn't know where to look these days.

strat84 · March 2023

DiscoStu said:

I haven't been in the furniture game for over 25 years @strat84 so wouldn't know where to look these days.

Ah ok no worries

strat84 · March 2023

Slight change of plan - My old man has 5 lengths of leftover bamboo from his porch flooring, about 15mm thick. Anyone have experience with bamboo?

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