NHS sell-off?

Sambostar · September 2014

I think it's called obligation and it comes with society as does your right to a (Relatively) peaceful existence.

If you don't want commitments or taxes, you don't have to have a society, but then you do have to be able to shoot straight.

I'm kind of wondering why my area has some of the highest local council taxes and I pay much the same as a family of eight who get benefits to pay for it, when I have a waste carriers licence, produce a carrier bag of waste a fortnight and would gladly dump my own waste and pay for it at the private tip, whilst everyone else is so seemingly wasteful and ignorant. But you can't get to thinking like this, because if you follow it through to fruition, it will lead you to shack in North Carolina, looking over your shoulder with a loaded shotgun settled on your lap.

There should be another way for society though that isn't so money orientated, so people can't buy their way out of obligation, because they were either born with it, worked hard, got lucky with investments or been on benefits most of their life. Something that would even the playing field so that all walks of life can relate in a bar or café, so everyone meets their obligations, rather than shirking them and public sector investment outweighs private shareholder funds.

ICBM · September 2014

^ I want to give both a wow and a wisdom to that, but you only get one so I'll have to settle for a wisdom.

Fretwired · September 2014

Gassage said:

I'd then abolish all private medical care and private education.

Unaffordable which is why Labour has never done it. If people want to pay tax and then pay to send their kids to private school or buy private medical insurance that's OK by me. People should focus on improving schools and the NHS not looking at private schools and private medical care [which millions of ordinary people get via employee benefits] and trying to close them down as they show up the state systems for what they are - shoddily run by poor managers and ineffectual ministers.

UnclePsychosis · September 2014

littlegreenman;353276" said:
Drew_fx said:

So wait... why have I got to pay money for some kids to get education when I don't have any kids and don't benefit from it at all?

I started to answer that, but then argued myself into a corner I can't reason my way out of. So, if anyone cleverer than me can answer it, please do.

It's pretty simple. We all benefit from having a society that is educated. Educated people get jobs, start businesses, invent things, employ people, etc etc etc. You have to be an idiot to think that educating people doesn't benefit everyone.

I can't remember who said it originally, but "taxes are what you use to buy civilisation" .

Hertz32 · September 2014

ICBM;353316" said:
^ I want to give both a wow and a wisdom to that, but you only get one so I'll have to settle for a wisdom.

I gave him a wow for you

Handsome_Chris · September 2014

Drew_fx said:

Gassage said:

It's a shame that this is so fucked up.

Equal education and health care are basic human rights IMO.

If I were made PM tomorrow, I'd raise taxes by 2% basic and 10% enhanced.

I'd then abolish all private medical care and private education.

I'd then spend all my tax money on putting in the best free Education and Health service ever seen anywhere in the world.

So wait... why have I got to pay money for some kids to get education when I don't have any kids and don't benefit from it at all?

No, @Drew_FX, the question is "Why have I got to pay money for some kids to get education when I don't have any kids, and the parents take them out of school because of holiday prices?" Now that is the one thing that is wrong with Britain.

UnclePsychosis said:

I can't remember who said it originally, but "taxes are what you use to buy civilisation" .

Joseph Goebbels.

ICBM · September 2014

Handsome_Chris said:

UnclePsychosis said:

I can't remember who said it originally, but "taxes are what you use to buy civilisation" .

Joseph Goebbels.

No.

Surprisingly enough - given their usual anti-tax sentiment - it's an American quote which goes back to the 1850s, and is written on the IRS building in Washington.

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/13/taxes-civilize/

I had thought it was Roosevelt, but he was just repeating it

.

Moe_Zambeek · September 2014

Fretwired;353332" said:
Gassage said:

I'd then abolish all private medical care and private education.

Unaffordable which is why Labour has never done it. If people want to pay tax and then pay to send their kids to private school or buy private medical insurance that's OK by me. People should focus on improving schools and the NHS not looking at private schools and private medical care [which millions of ordinary people get via employee benefits] and trying to close them down as they show up the state systems for what they are - shoddily run by poor managers and ineffectual ministers.

Indeed. This would be levelling down, rather than up. Many would prefer that of course.

Having a reasonable amount of working experience with the NHS I'd say it's doomed, by it's own actions. It's institutionally corrupt in many ways and profligate to the point of absurdity.

ICBM · September 2014

Moe_Zambeek said:
Having a reasonable amount of working experience with the NHS I'd say it's doomed, by it's own actions. It's institutionally corrupt in many ways and profligate to the point of absurdity.

My brother-in-law works for the NHS in England and says the same thing. He calls it the Notional Health Service.

I'm not at all convinced that privatisation is the cure, though.

Fretwired · September 2014

UnclePsychosis said:

It's pretty simple. We all benefit from having a society that is educated. Educated people get jobs, start businesses, invent things, employ people, etc etc etc. You have to be an idiot to think that educating people doesn't benefit everyone.

I can't remember who said it originally, but "taxes are what you use to buy civilisation" .

@UnclePsychosis - spot on. The only time I was shouting at the TV was on Question Time when some stupid woman asked why she had to support other people's kids and the education system through her taxes as she'd never wanted any children. If you want kids pay for them she said ... the panel's answers weren't to clever and I found myself shouting at the TV set about where all the doctors, nurses, social workers, policemen and women, armed services, bin men and so forth would come from if funding for education and welfare for kids was cut. Some people are seriously dumb.

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

UnclePsychosis said:

It's pretty simple. We all benefit from having a society that is educated. Educated people get jobs, start businesses, invent things, employ people, etc etc etc. You have to be an idiot to think that educating people doesn't benefit everyone.

I can't remember who said it originally, but "taxes are what you use to buy civilisation" .

The thing is, it isn't that simple, and no we don't all benefit from having a society that is educated. Educated people don't necessarily get jobs, don't necessarily start businesses, don't necessarily invent things or employ people, etc etc etc.

Educating people doesn't necessarily benefit everyone. It depends on *context* and a whole lot of variables. it depends on what that person does with their education. If they invent a lightning suit and become a super-villain, I hardly see that as a benefit to the whole of society. Especially when they go power crazy and turn to canabalism and start cooking toddlers on the high street.

What you're doing is the slipper slope fallacy in reverse. The whole idea of inclusivity, education for everyone, and Sam's idea of everyone relating to everyone else... a social utopia. There is no evidence that any of it will particularly change our society - for better or worse. It's just naval gazing and does nothing to solve the actual problems people face on a day to day basis.

Sorry but I'm feeling grumpy this morning

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

Fretwired said:

I found myself shouting at the TV set about where all the doctors, nurses, social workers, policemen and women, armed services, bin men and so forth would come from if funding for education and welfare for kids was cut. Some people are seriously dumb.

I found myself shouting "where will all the blue collar wage slaves that make my coffee and empty my bins and save my cats from burning buildings come from!"

chillidoggy · September 2014

At the end of the day, someone still has to empty the bins.

And, topically, unblock the drains.

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

chillidoggy said:

And, topically, unblock the drains.

Heard @JonnyBurgo is good at that

holnrew · September 2014

I don't mind paying for other people to have kids (not that I am) because I want decent young fillies to adulterate in my older years.

jonnyburgo · September 2014

Drew_fx said:

chillidoggy said:

And, topically, unblock the drains.

Heard @JonnyBurgo is good at that

Oi!

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NHS sell-off?

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