These two amps... what do you think?

steamabacus · September 2014

guitarfishbay said:

Are you guys who prefer B compensating for the level mismatch? It isn't quite fair otherwise and exaggerates the differences. In general with two similar sounds we prefer louder in an A/B conent for some psychological reason I can't remember how to explain.

After Drew mentioned it I went back and listened again with the louder one attenuated slightly (not very scientifically, I admit - I just turned it down 'a bit'). I think they do actually sound (tonally) slightly different, though. There's also something else different that I hear but find very difficult to put into words. But B was more pleasing to my ears.

Adji · September 2014

They do sound quite similar to me. A seems to have a high end fizz to it which is more prominent than B. Something about A makes me think it was mic'd up so I'm going to say A was the real amp but based on just the tones alone I couldn't tell.

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

Well I guess I'll tell you then.

A - Kemper
B - Real amp.

Diezel D-Moll. Channel 3. Midcut enabled (which adds some aggression to the amp)

The extra highs on the Kemper comes from adding some presence, so not a 100% fair test. But I dialed it in to what I liked. I think I could probably get it a bit closer, but if you'd handed me these two files and asked me which I preferred, I would probably not be able to pick one.

It's my first proper profile, so I'm sure there is still stuff I could learn, but damn interesting.

ICBM · September 2014

I'm slightly surprised I was right now

.

I'd like to say that I knew all along, but I can't. I think you can tell, but it was close enough that I wasn't absolutely sure and I did think I might have been over-analysing it - which can sometimes produce the wrong answer, although in this case it did produce the right one for the reasons I said. But if I'd heard either in isolation, I wouldn't even have been as sure as that, I don't think.

Interesting, I agree. I'm surprised that you find them almost indistinguishable, to me the difference is quite big and it's mostly to do with that resonant low-end with the Diezel and the slight separation with the Kemper. On the other hand I know that's what I listen for and I know you prefer tighter tones in general. I was playing a Diezel the other day (the Einstein) and although it does have that trouser-flapping bass, it's still far too tight and direct a sound for me.

monquixote · September 2014

It was actually the high end fizz that I didn't like so perhaps without the presence I'd have liked the Kemper just as much.

steamabacus · September 2014

I'm (somewhat irrationally) relieved that I preferred the real amp. I'd agree with ICBM and Monquixote that the high end 'fizz' is different on the two recordings - on the first one it was a bit like a constant white noise hiss sitting slightly separate to the guitar tone. The second one still had the 'fizz' but seemed somehow more part of the tone - ICBM expressed that really well - and less 'constant'.

The overall impression for me, though, was that the second one was just more '3-dimensional', had more 'depth', more ... er ... 'real' sounding. But that could just as easily have been as a result of different mic'ing/production techniques between two different 'real' recordings.

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

I think I prefer the Kemper to be honest. Just feels more usable in a mix... I know that's what all Kemper owners say to justify the differences that result!

Currently I own the D-Moll, the Axe FX II, and now the Kemper. I should have enough here to keep me busy for a while!

I could do with some help to develop a methodology for comparing the Axe and the Kemper. Because they're so different, I'm not even sure it is possible!

guitarfishbay · September 2014

Just make music, pick the one you like working with.

Honestly, a while back I was still saying it was worth going for a real amp over the Axe/Kemper (for recording).

Now, I feel like for a lot of tones the Kemper or the Axe can sound equally as good, if not better than a real amp in the mix, for recording.

Ultimately, you only play the finished version of a song to people once. Nobody releases an A/B of an album for people to compare guitar tones. This doesn't mean tones don't matter - but what it does mean is that if you can get a great result using a preferable workflow then you should take advantage of it.

If I owned a commercial studio I'd definitely still have real amps. But unless you can get an amp mic'd up in a separate room so you can hear your tones in the mix on your monitors it is just a massive PITA to dial in a tone for a mix, IME (and I don't think I'm massively gifted at this, which doesn't help!).

With a Kemper or an Axe you can tweak while the mix is playing through your monitors and in theory do whatever you like... as far as amp tones go both give you masses of options, and for the cash, way more than you'd be able to afford in terms of 'real stuff'. You can also record/reamp at whatever time of day you fancy, and it is a massively more mobile setup than an amp/cab.

There is still merit in owning real amps/cabs/mics, and I think having experience with them is 100% useful and without some knowledge you'd definitely be lost in the Axe. With the Kemper being snapshots of entire rigs it should be more plug and play, providing the person doing the profile was skilled + going for something that works for you. But I personally think the time was right for me to switch to the Axe. I do have a feeling that the Kemper will be a better choice for you, with you keeping the Diezel to use live... that way you can have your cake and eat it!

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

I like working with both. But they have different approaches as you know. I used the Axe this week for a video soundtrack, sounded good... no issues.

I'll probably keep all three for the time being!

guitarfishbay · September 2014

guitarfishbay said:

... that way you can have your cake and eat it!

Drew_fx said:
I'll probably keep all three for the time being!

steamabacus · September 2014

It'll only go downhill from here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwylBRucU7w

57Deluxe · September 2014

I don't care enough to bother - sorry...

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

57Deluxe said:

I don't care enough to bother - sorry...

Why do you make these snide responses to my posts every now and then? I noticed it a few months back and have been keeping somewhat of an eye on it. Please refrain from being a dick - it's the rules.

steamabacus · September 2014

Drew_fx said:

57Deluxe said:

I don't care enough to bother - sorry...

Why do you make these snide responses to my posts every now and then? I noticed it a few months back and have been keeping somewhat of an eye on it. Please refrain from being a dick - it's the rules.

Yeah, I've noticed your profile pic.

Drew_TNBD · September 2014

teeeeheeeee

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These two amps... what do you think?

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