Help with Kramer 650G re-wire - Verify wiring diagram makes sense!

Bisonkills · April 2023

Hi folks, I am currently re-wiring a very lovely Kramer 650G for a friend. I managed to source a wiring diagram from the Kramer forums. However, I'm a bit confused by the wiring diagram posted there for a few reasons. Before I go ahead and solder everything in place I want to ensure everything is correct and I understand WHY it's correct. Here's the wiring diagram from the forums.

What's confusing me is 3 way selector wires running to the outer lug of the VOL pot and the pickup hot wire to middle lug on the VOL pots. All wiring I've done in the past has the pickup hot to the outer lug and output to pickup toggle on the middle lug (output). They appear switched around in this diagram. Can I ask why? Is it because of the 1nf cap bridging the two?

Secondly, the 22nf cap runs from different lugs for each VOL pot, again, should this be consistent? One is run from middle lug, the outer from an outer lug. Again, is this correct? And can someone explain the reasoning for it not being consistent?

Just want to use this as a learning exercise to gain more understanding as opposed to blindly following wiring diagrams. Thanks in advance. I've seen some photos of the wiring on this model and the above diagram seems to check out bar the slight discrepancy on the 22nf tone cap not being middle lug on both pots.

Standards Seymour Duncan 2 humbucker wiring for comparison, which is part of the reason for me double checking! Any input from more learned people appreciated!

ICBM · April 2023

The volume controls are wired incorrectly in the Kramer diagram - you're right, the pickups should be connected to the end terminals and the switch to the middle terminals of the volume pots.

Reversing the wiring as they've done gives "independent" volume controls - ie you can turn one right down without the other being muted in the middle switch position - but why would you want to do that? If you want to turn one pickup off, that's what the switch is for...

The reverse volume pot wiring also makes the treble loss as you turn the volume controls down far worse without the 1nF treble-pass cap, but then stops the treble-pass working correctly - it makes the result quite shrill instead - it's really a bad scheme all round.

The 22nF caps can be connected to either the pickup terminals ("modern" wiring) which works better with the treble-pass cap, or to the middle terminals ("50s" wiring) which can work better without the treble-pass cap. If you want to use the treble-pass caps, connect them to the pickup terminals.

I would also use a much smaller value than 1nF for the treble-pass caps - that will be unnaturally bright as you turn the volumes down instead of simply retaining treble. I would use 220pF or 180pF.

Bisonkills · April 2023

Thank you, I thought I was going mad. But it looks like the guitars were originally wired this way and the owner was keen on returning it to stock. I'll run this by him to see what he wants.

Good to clarify that the Kramer wiring diagram will work, just with different results, i.e. the independent vol control in middle position.

I still don't understand the inconsistent tone cap placement on the Kramer diagram, any idea why the would opt for different lugs for each pickup?

So, to clarify, for more conventional wiring:

-I'd wire the pickup hot to the outer lug of the vol pot

Pickup selector wire to the middle lug

Tone cap is run from vol pot outer lug to middle lug of tone pot.

I may try some lower values for the treble roll off or consider omitting it entirely. I can see the reasoning as these aluminium neck instruments tend to sound pretty bright by their nature.

Thanks for your feedback.

ICBM · April 2023

Bisonkills said:

Thank you, I thought I was going mad. But it looks like the guitars were originally wired this way and the owner was keen on returning it to stock. I'll run this by him to see what he wants.

In that case keep the reverse volume control wiring, but I think the different tone cap connections must be a mistake - they should both be connected to the pickup (middle) terminal.

For what it’s worth, Rickenbackers are wired this way round too, it’s one of the bugbears with them and I think one of the main reasons most Rick players don’t use the controls much!

Funkfingers · April 2023

Bisonkills said:
I still don't understand the inconsistent tone cap placement on the Kramer diagram, any idea why the would opt for different lugs for each pickup?

The Kramer diagram was originated, on a computer, by somebody more skilled in graphic design than in guitar control circuitry.

This was certainly true of the Seymour Duncan on-line wiring diagrams section after the website redesign approximately ten years ago. SD Inc. contracted a outside firm to "modernize" their Support section. Unfortunately, the results were frustrating for all. Navigation became an endless round of selection menus. If this process found you a diagram, the odds were fifty fifty that there would be a howling error in it.

The SD forum was awash with newbie questions along the lines of, "I wired up my pickups EXACTLY in accordance with the on-line diagram but it doesn't work. Please help."

Bisonkills · April 2023

Done the re-wire. Went with the independent vol control wiring as per wishes of the owner.

All seems okay!

One final question though @ICBM ;;; if you can help? I did note that in neck and bridge position the guitar passes a tiny bit of signal (very quiet) even with the volume pot down. However, in the middle position, pots down does kill the signal entirely.

I read that this is again a 'quirk' of the independent wiring layout. Is this correct?

ICBM · April 2023

Bisonkills said:

One final question though @ICBM ;;; if you can help? I did note that in neck and bridge position the guitar passes a tiny bit of signal (very quiet) even with the volume pot down. However, in the middle position, pots down does kill the signal entirely.

I read that this is again a 'quirk' of the independent wiring layout. Is this correct?

It's more usually a symptom of a bit of resistance in the ground path somewhere, allowing a tiny bit of signal to leak past via the other pickup circuit. With both volumes down together it kills that. It's more noticeable with 'independent' wiring because the output of the pot is left floating when the control is turned down rather than being grounded.

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Help with Kramer 650G re-wire - Verify wiring diagram makes sense!

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