A lesson learnt...

impmann · September 2014

I have a Hot Rod Deluxe... and V1 started getting noisy. I also noticed a blue tinge to one of the power amp valves.

So after reading some 'experts' on the Fender (and other) forums blathering about fitting a groove tubes 5751-M and how much clearer they sounded... I thought OK why not.

I also slotted in a pair of Ruby 6L6s into the power stage (they were lying around) and biased it up accordingly.

The result?

Horrible. Hateful sounding cleans that were more 1 dimensional than a line drawing and the drive channel had no go and sounded like it needed Sinex. I also found that on clean single notes, the decay wasn't linear and would break up in a fuzzy, almost broken sounding way.

So more money later, I've bought a GT 12AX7R and a pair of GT 6L6s (re biased again) and it's back to sounding wonderful again. Fwiw, I tried it with the Ruby power stage and the 12ax7 and it was hugely better... Just nowhere near as sweet sounding with the GTs.

So the lesson learnt is that if you like the sound of your amp, do not assume that advice 'improving' your tone is actually going to do just that. The other person could be a deaf pillock who likes things to sound broken!

ThePrettyDamned · September 2014

I've heard loads of valve advice recommending one brand over another (usually because it's more expensive) and all it is is a rebranded "normal" one.

Valves vary from one to another anyway. I still think there is a market for a high quality modern valve (as in, made in the same way as old mullard, telefunken etc). I don't see why they can't do it? I don't even see why it would cost a great deal more.

ICBM · September 2014

impmann said:
I have a Hot Rod Deluxe... and V1 started getting noisy. I also noticed a blue tinge to one of the power amp valves.

Blue glow is not a problem. It's unlikely there's anything wrong with those power valves.

impmann said:
So after reading some 'experts' on the Fender (and other) forums blathering about fitting a groove tubes 5751-M and how much clearer they sounded... I thought OK why not.

Horrible. Hateful sounding cleans that were more 1 dimensional than a line drawing and the drive channel had no go and sounded like it needed Sinex. I also found that on clean single notes, the decay wasn't linear and would break up in a fuzzy, almost broken sounding way.

I really don't like 5751s. To me they sound an odd combination of too smooth and harsh at the same time… hard to describe, but nasty.

impmann · September 2014

That is it in a nutshell @ICBM.

It changed a great sounding amp into something truly horrid.

Richardj · September 2014

Am I right in thinking that Fender own the Groove Tube brand? Probably, given that virtually all Fender amps have them as standard.

They aren't bad valves, can you get a significant improvement from other brands? Interested as I haven't yet tried experimenting.

ICBM · September 2014

I've seen more problems with Groove Tubes valves than any other brand I can think of apart from the early PM Tubes.

They don't actually make valves either - they buy them from the same Chinese and Russian factories as every other reseller, and test them - although with GT, somehow the testing makes them less reliable…

I'm not sure if they're owned by Fender or if they just have an 'exclusive use' deal with them.

Richardj · September 2014

OK, I didn't think they actually made them, Obviously the same with MESA etc branded valves as well, just branded.

My problem is lack of anywhere local reliable/trustworthy to re-bias an amp and not confident to do it myself yet. Fender allegedly make life easy by having colour/number coded valves available off the shelf. Is this really reliable enough?

ICBM · September 2014

Richardj said:
My problem is lack of anywhere local reliable/trustworthy to re-bias an amp and not confident to do it myself yet. Fender allegedly make life easy by having colour/number coded valves available off the shelf. Is this really reliable enough?

Assuming you don't get a faulty valve, yes.

Richardj · September 2014

A teensy hint of irony there then

Dave_Mc · September 2014

I tried a 5751 in my vht special 6 for a laugh a while back, just to see what the fuss was about and maybe improve the cleans/clean headroom. Admittedly, it was just a sovtek one (though from what I read, it was meant to be one of the "good" sovtek ones), and I wasn't much fussed. As you said, it sounded a bit 2-dimensional or bland.

I took it out. I agree with you- some things may well improve the tone but a lot of these things that people swear blind, "Oh you have to do this, it sounds crap unless you do!" are BS, in my experience. Or maybe they genuinely work for the person who's suggesting it and his/her specific situation, but that doesn't mean it'll work for you.

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A lesson learnt...

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