So, who is still making thermionic valves?

ROOG · September 2013

It struck me that the relatively small market that is the Guitar amplifier user still wants to buy new valve guitar amplifiers and that they need a source of new valves. Now I'm guessing that many are made in China perhaps on old machinery scavenged from the Europe and the US.

I don't know if these perform as well as the products that "streamed" off the 50's and 60's production lines, in theory with our better understanding of production techniques they should be better.

Do respected names like RCA. Philips, Mullard, Telefunken, etc still make them?

Just interested.

ICBM · September 2013

I think there are specialist valves - for things like high-power radio transmitters - still being made in the West, although I'm not sure that most of the original companies still exist, apart from Philips.

I don't think the Chinese and Russian valves are made on old Western machinery - in most cases the internal details of the valves are different, so it doesn't seem likely even if they had somehow managed to acquire them and ship them over - but the Russians and Czechs would have had no need to anyway since they were making valves at the same time as the Western factories.

In my opinion the modern valves don't perform as well as the old ones. Whether they're just less well-made (I think they probably are, given their cost, and what some of them look like inside) or are not as rigorously tested at the factory, or both, I'm not sure. Bear in mind that the level of quality required for musical applications doesn't come close to that necessary for military, avionics or other critical systems that valves were used for up to the 1970s so there is no real need to make them that well. In my (anecdotal) experience and opinion, they're neither as robust as the old ones nor sound as good. That isn't to say they're terrible or the old ones are perfect, either.

Dave_Mc · September 2013

I just assumed ICBM was making them in his shed.

thermionic · September 2013

ICBM said:

I think there are specialist valves - for things like high-power radio transmitters - still being made in the West, although I'm not sure that most of the original companies still exist, apart from Philips.

I had a job interview a few months ago at a company who started out making valves... and still make them. As you suggest, they only really make high power (kW and above!) magnetrons and such for radiotherapy and radar now. It was interesting to walk around the place - started out in the old building where the glass-blowing and electrodes were made, then the later extension (60s/70s) where it was all transistors. Right at the end was where they make silicon chips. Like travelling through time.

ICBM · September 2013

Dave_Mc said:

I just assumed ICBM was making them in his shed.

I wish!

There is someone who can, though...

monquixote · September 2013

Does the process require they can only be built cost effectively at scale?

If someone could produce really high quality valves in relatively small quantities it would be a real money spinner.

Dave_Mc · September 2013

^^ holy crap

)

ROOG · September 2013

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I just assumed ICBM was making them in his shed.

I wish!

There is someone who can, though...

Is that the French chap , Claude Paillard?

ROOG · September 2013

This is wonderful work but hardly a production line

Van_Hayden · September 2013

These are the dogs. If you can afford them mind. Made in Prague.

http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-kt88-diamond-valve-000011.html

ROOG · September 2013

Van_Hayden said:

These are the dogs. If you can afford them mind. Made in Prague.

http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-kt88-diamond-valve-000011.html

Nice production facility.

ESchap · September 2013

Strong rumours that Svetlana (winged C) have now finally left the audio market. Surely only a matter of time before it becomes un-commercial for the other "mainstream" manufacturers that remain. Would be great if we got a few "boutique" manufacturers like EAT making high quality valves, but of course they are aiming at HiFi market where no price seems to be too high! Unfortunately unlikely that those prices will work for guitar amps.

Then again, those big kW transmitter valves can be used for audio, in this case supported by an orchestra of struggling Mercury vapour rectifiers .... nice! go to 2:40 if you don't want to watch it all.

Van_Hayden · September 2013

To be honest SED priced themselves out of the market for OEMs, that's where the volume is. I suspect new sensor will manage to survive alongside the Chinese offerings for a while. What will suffer is quality as manufacturers go for profit.

Van_Hayden · September 2013

Mercury arc rectifiers look fantastic....although slightly frightening!

ROOG · September 2013

Came across a bunch of big mercury arc rectifiers at a paper mill running motor drives, you could see the blue glow a way off, serious valves!

crunchman · September 2013

If SED are down, that would leave New Sensor (Sovtek and EH, Tung-Sol), JJ (in Slovakia), and 1 or two factories in China to the best of my knowledge.

According to Wikipedia EI stopped valve manufacturing in 2006.

I know that Groove tubes were supposed to have bought up some old Mullard/GE machinery but I don't know if they are doing anything with it.

thermionic · September 2013

I was wondering what happened to Ei, they were the go-to brand for Vox amps a few years ago.

ICBM · September 2013

It looks like they got bought out by a large western company who wanted some other part of their manufacturing, the valve operation was shut down and the equipment scrapped.

There was a rumour on the internet that they got bombed by NATO during the Kosovo war, but I don't think that's true since they didn't shut down until some time after that.

Drew_TNBD · September 2013

I really want to try some solid state valves. I find valves very finicky and they change their tone quite a lot, particularly power valves!

digitalscream · September 2013

Drew_fx said:

I really want to try some solid state valves. I find valves very finicky and they change their tone quite a lot, particularly power valves!

AMT are selling theirs now:

http://eshop.amtelectronics.com/accessories/12ax7ws-warmstone-12ax7-tubes-solid-state-equivalents.html

They're only selling in sets of 4, though. Jet City's are in sets of 3...but you get a choice of gain characteristics.

ROOG · September 2013

I refer to my previous post re: solid state amps. If we all install solid state valves in our amps we end up with solid state amps with transformers and IF this is GOOOD! Then why not design and sell properly optimised solid state amps like this in the first place? And yet no one does.

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So, who is still making thermionic valves?

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