The problem with amp sims

Vintage65 · January 2024

PolarityMan said:

I think this advice has been floating around for years. Certainly I've been using hi-Z input with zero gain for a long time (maybe 5-10 years). In the metal world best practice recommendation these days is actually to use a DI-box but personally I don't feel like I have a problem so haven't seen the need to chuck money at it.

Btw some hard picking players with high output pickups will actually clip inputs even at zero gain so some people either recommend a pad or a DI box to get provide a pad.

Like everything else, it's whatever works for you. For me personally, it's a definite improvement in the sound, and all the data is in a spreadsheet, so it's couldn't be any easier. There is a lot of noise around this subject though, and you can make it as complicated as you want.

Grumpyrocker · January 2024

I haven't quite grasped this. So is the advice on my Scarlett to actually have the input knob all the way down on zero?

digitalkettle · January 2024

Grumpyrocker said:

I haven't quite grasped this. So is the advice on my Scarlett to actually have the input knob all the way down on zero?

Following the spreadsheet to the letter, yep.

Then, depending on your interface's Maximum Input Volume (for the DI/instrument input), a further tweak on the plugin's input control to align it with the ideal level expected by plugin.

I did try this over lunch (Audient EVO 8 + Neural stuff) and I thought I got a lot more out of the plugins...especially on more powerful pickups...which makes sense (feel slightly daft now). It wasn't so obvious because I always left a decent amount of headroom; heeding the advice that recording to digital isn't like recording to tape.

Grumpyrocker · January 2024

Thanks I'll give it a try. It seems odd having the input level on zero.

Grunfeld · January 2024

mrkb said:

Sporky said:

I assume the YouTube monetisation algorithm rewards incoherent rambling. Five minutes in I still had no idea what the problem was. Videos are a terrible way of transferring this sort of information.

It also seems to have sprung up lot of duplicate topic content where everyone covers the same topics (is fresh content very limited at the moment?). There’s been this topic and a lot of “why people are quitting YouTube” videos in my feed recently.

1) I found the same as @Sporky -- I came away after a minute clueless and thinking what a terrible presenter the fella was.

2) @mrkb I was wondering that too and then thought, is it cos I clicked on one?, or even hovered a cursor near one(!) and the algorithm starts pumping "quit" videos at me. It's quick off the mark and feeds any indication I might be interested in something outside my usual. Or it might be content producers having a slightly hysterical mass flounce. I'm sure they'll be back.

Vintage65 · January 2024

Grumpyrocker said:

I haven't quite grasped this. So is the advice on my Scarlett to actually have the input knob all the way down on zero?

Yep, 0dBu and find the corresponding value for your amp sim in the spreadsheet. You could also use a different value on the interface e.g. 1dBu or 2dBu if that is the sound you are actually looking for, but then you would have to subtract the corresponding value from the amp sim level to maintain the plugin calibration level. As an example, it could be 0dBu on the interface and 1.5dB in the plugin, or 1dBu on the interface and 0.5dB in the plugin, etc.

Vintage65 · January 2024

Grunfeld said:
1) I found the same as @Sporky -- I came away after a minute clueless and thinking what a terrible presenter the fella was.

He has an account on here, not sure if he still posts, but that's why I posted his video

https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3754088/

Grumpyrocker · January 2024

Just tried this in Garageband with Helix Native. Damn the Helix input level button is tiny and stupidly fiddly.

Resulting tones sounded great though.

Vintage65 · January 2024

Grumpyrocker said:

Just tried this in Garageband with Helix Native. Damn the Helix input level button is tiny and stupidly fiddly.

Resulting tones sounded great though.

Just click on the value and type it in manually, it's much easier. I use templates with everything already setup, so I can be playing or recording within 10 seconds.

Grunfeld · January 2024

Vintage65 said:

Grunfeld said:
1) I found the same as @Sporky -- I came away after a minute clueless and thinking what a terrible presenter the fella was.

He has an account on here, not sure if he still posts, but that's why I posted his video

https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3754088/

Ah gosh, I hadn't realised! Well, for what it's worth I know he's got a good reputation and is well thought of! Also, I was leaping into the video cold and maybe a regular viewer would have some prior assumptions and knowledge.

Vintage65 · January 2024

Grunfeld said:
Ah gosh, I hadn't realised! Well, for what it's worth I know he's got a good reputation and is well thought of! Also, I was leaping into the video cold and maybe a regular viewer would have some prior assumptions and knowledge.

I don't think the topic helped much either, as the concept is pretty abstract. It took me a while get my head around what was going on, and why I should do it, but once I worked out it was a symmetric relationship it was all good.

JonnyBgoode · January 2024

Vintage65 said:

Yep, 0dBu and find the corresponding value for your amp sim in the spreadsheet.

Sadly no Amplitube values, though i noted from the video that their amps are all different anyhow.

digitalkettle · January 2024

JonnyBgoode said:

Vintage65 said:

Yep, 0dBu and find the corresponding value for your amp sim in the spreadsheet.

Sadly no Amplitube values, though i noted from the video that their amps are all different anyhow.

As a principle, you could set your interface to 0dB then get in the ballpark by finding a lively cleanish patch, dropping the plugin's input level right off, and then winding it back up to the point where it feels healthy.

Littlejonny · January 2024

I’ve always done this (recorded guitar with preamp gain at zero). I either read about it or someone told me about it years ago. Probably a sound engineer.

darius · January 2024

I also seem to have been flooded by this topic in my YT feed. Algorithm gonna Algorithm.

I did watch it and it turns out I’ve been doing this correctly by accident, my guitars would clip my SSL interface when the knob was at anything above zero. It took a while to confidently leave it at zero because it absolutely feels wrong, but since it sounded right it was a good test of setting things with your ears not your eyes. I just thought it was very hot pickups. Makes more sense now.

UnclePsychosis · January 2024

This is, thankfully, quite easy to get right on Helix Native.

When you open Native, at the left hand side of the signal flow window there's an input meter and a slider. There's also a nice helpful green section highlighted between -12dB and -36dB. When you play your instrument you should see the signal in the meter.

You want to set the input gain of your interface, and the slider value in Native, so that both your hardest and softest playing sit within that range. That's all there is to it, really. I have a Komplete Audio 6 and I'm not sure where 0dB is, so I set the gain knob on that to half way, and then make fine adjustment in Native depending on what instrument I'm using.

Page 10 of the Helix Native "pilot's guide" basically tells you everything I've just said.

Nerine · January 2024

Feel like this is all being blown out of proportion a bit. It’s a bit of a non issue IMO.

Common sense would suggest not ramping up the gain on your hi z input or whatever when running a guitar into it.

Alternatively, turn the control until
it sounds good. Not rocket science.

Vintage65 · February 2024

Nerine said:

Feel like this is all being blown out of proportion a bit. It’s a bit of a non issue IMO.
Common sense would suggest not ramping up the gain on your hi z input or whatever when running a guitar into it.
Alternatively, turn the control until
it sounds good. Not rocket science.

I'm calibrated to the input values of the amp software and much happier for it, especially when it comes to reamping DI recorded from my interface through the Kemper. Everything is replicable and just works. However I agree that everybody should stick to whatever solution works best for them, as they are the ones who need to be happy with their own sound.

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The problem with amp sims

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