Changing song/setlist on a pedalboard

Roland · June 8

Configuring programmed pedal boards for live use is a very personal thing. In another thread

topdog91 said: How do you manage changing the "bank per song" in terms of changing setlists?

This struck me as a useful discussion for those of us who use Helix, Fractal, or effects switchers in anything other than stomp box mode. What pedal tapping do you do to change song, and how does it work behind the scenes? Pictures or screen grabs would help to visualise what it looks like to use your rig.

If people find this a useful topic I’ll grab images of my own board.

Danny1969 · June 8

For the Kate Bush tribute shows I had a Pod Go with a bank per song and named to that song. So take a song like Wuthering, there's a clean sound, an auto fade in effect, an overdrive and a more creamy distortion with some delay. So in that bank which was number 20 I think there was Wuth-Clean .... Wuth-fade ... Wuth-dirt and Wuth-lead.

The was a slight drop out when switching patches in this way and I should have used snap shot mode but it wasn't enough of an issue to cause a problem as FOH would always have some verb on it anyway.

As the setlist was almost always the same, just some songs left out for shorter gigs this worked well. You do a song and then you move up a bank.

Roland · June 8

My band plays pop covers from pre-agreed set lists. For simplicity each song has a dedicated patch in the AxeFX, based on a default patch design. The Fractal setlist feature means that I don’t have to store patches in sequence.

My pedal board looks like this:

When we’re playing the FC-12 switches are configured like this:

The buttons on top right select next or previous songs. I could have used Tap for next and Hold for previous, but sometimes I need to step very quickly through the setlist, and Hold takes 2 seconds. Holding the button on top left changes to a different setlist.

Along the bottom are buttons for song sections (scenes). These may, or may not, change Amp sounds and effects. They usually trigger lighting changes where the AxeFX send midi messages to our lighting controller. The key point is that I don’t have to think about what’s changing. I just step on the button. Bottom right is the tuner, which also kills the sound.

maltingsaudio · June 9

The point of this thread really is preparation and rehearsal. For a gig like @Danny1969 ’s then a patch per song is essential , for cover bands then a generic “they sound like this” patch is useful, for a blues band a bit of crunch and the glory solo sound is all you need!

I fall into the I’ve got four sounds available and that’s what you get category

Cue the it’s not what you sound like just the notes you play discussion

Musicwolf · June 9

Background - I play in two bands, both bands have two guitars plus vocals with drums and bass on backing tracks (which I record myself). I play through a Helix, the other guitarist in Band A also uses a Helix and the other guy in Band B uses my old Vox ToneLab SE. Band A we split lead duties between the two guitarists, Band B I'm on lead and the other guy is rhythm only. The two Helix boards are set up as 'one patch per song', even if many of the patches are just clones. The ToneLab has just three patches with no patch changes mid song. There's a further complication that, in Band A, I sometimes use two different guitars, the second guitar has a piezo bridge with a separate output (which feeds into the aux input on the Helix).

I have three setlists on the Helix. Band A / 2 guitars (conventional + piezo), Band A / 1 guitar and Band B / 1 guitar. Where I am using just 1 guitar (with magnetic pickups) I have an acoustic simulation pedal in the chain (it's not as good as having a piezo bridge).

The backing tracks are handled by a Windows laptop running Cantabile. Cantabile allows me to run multiple audio and midi tracks in sync (a bit like a DAW, but Cantabile uses multiple sync'd media players), plus it can send MIDI messages as soon as a song loads.

Cantabile runs the show. I reorder the setlist in Cantabile according to the gig and, when a song loads, it sends a Prog Change (PC) message to my Helix to pull up the corresponding patch. It also selects patches on the ToneLab in Band B. In Band A the other guitars operates his Helix the old-fashioned way, with his feet. A MIDI file, synchronised to the backing, handles Snapshot changes at the right point within the song (I don't need to press anything either during or between songs), a second MIDI file is triggering lighting changes through another programme, QLC+. The same laptop is handling mixing duties on the Behringer XR-18and I have an Elgato Stream Deck plugged into the laptop to make it easier to operate.

My Helix sits behind me on stage, tucked out of the way (link to laptop via USB). We setup, I pull up the relevant setlist for whichever band etc. Tune up (I have a button on the Stream Deck to turn the Helix's tuner on and off), first song is ready to go and the corresponding patch on my Helix loaded. I hit the play button on the Stream Deck (or, more likely, the record button if we want to record the show) and off we go. Lights are sync'd to the song; Snapshots change at the desired point.

End of the song the stage lights go to white, the next song loads automatically (and loads the appropriate Helix patch) and, if required, changes the fader levels on the XR-18. As soon as we are ready to go, I just hit the play button again.

If everything goes right, then all I have to do all evening is just to keep hitting play at the start of each song. If I need to tune up mid set, then there's a one button push to activate the tuner. If I break a string on the piezo bridge guitar then it's another one button press to change the Helix setlist so that I can use the other guitar.

All of the hard work is done before the gig. Once on stage all that I have to do is to play the right note, in the right order, and look fabulous. I could operate the second Helix in Band A this way, but then the other guitarist would have no excuse for never looking up (nor moving, nor smiling).

rsvmark · June 17

I use a boss es-8. Each bank is a range of presets dialled in for that song including midi to an H9 which has song specific delays, tempos, reverbs etc. preset 1 is usually intro patch, then I have verse on 2, chorus on 3 and solo on 4. Sometimes it’s varied so if I don’t have a solo I might have a middle 8 on 4. Generally this approach works well enough and there is only 1 song (all originals) that needs 6 presets but it’s the exception rather than the rule.

if we change the set from gig to gig, it’s a simple copy and paste session which takes 5 mins max.

mike257 · July 2

For the guitarists I've teched for that use multi FX or switchers, I've always grabbed the laptop editor for the relevant piece of kit and put the patches in setlist order before each show. I'll also mark up the setlist with patch numbers for a quick reference just in case anything changes on the fly, and I'll put any "maybe" songs that might get chucked in so they're straight after the main set and can be found quickly if needed.

rich75 · July 3

I use a Helix Floor in a covers band with a number of per song presets and then a general preset that I use for songs that don't need anything out of the ordinary. My band uses the Bandhelper app to create our setlists and I can use the app on an iPad to recall presets via midi.

As soon as the next song is selected on the app it will call up the correct preset on the Helix and I'm ready to go in snapshot mode. It works really well and is much easier than tap dancing.

I used a CME WIDI Master for a while to change presets wirelessly but started having some problems connecting when our other guitarist also brought one (

), so more recently I have gone for a wired connection which has worked flawlessly.

Bandhleper makes it very easy as you just have to add a midi preset to the song and it will then automatically call it up in future from within the setlist. It means you don't have to worry about reordering patches and just need to remember to put the midi address in once when you first add a new song.

TheBigDipper · July 3

Boss ES-5 user. I arrange the presets to be in setlist order - usually using the Editor app on my computer, but I do move things around on the unit if I need to. The band only plays originals and we rarely play for more than 75mins. I only use 1 or 2 presets per song, so each bank on the ES-5 has the presets for song A triggered by FS1 and FS2 and the presets for song B in FS3 and FS4. I change to the next bank using the Bank footswitch button.

Every preset I use has FS5 configured to change to the next preset or the previous preset - depending on which one it is. Playing song A, preset 1, FS5 selects the "next' preset - preset 2 for song A. Playing preset 2, FS5 selects the "previous" preset - preset 1 for song A.

This has worked well, but I'm now thinking about doing something similar to @rich75. I use SongBook Pro for lyrics and chords. It has the ability to send a PC command when a new song is displayed. I've tested that the ES-5 will load a preset properly when sent a PC command. Now I need to work out how to get MIDI working on my iPad. The benefit to me will be I won't need to put the ES-5 presets into setlist order. It's much easier building a setlist in SBP.

TheBigDipper · July 4

^^^^ And I've made it work a treat. Very pleased. It also means I can reduce the number of presets I keep on the ES-5. Currently I have several identical/duplicate presets just because I'm trying to keep them in setlist order and can go "next preset" on the ES-5.

Adji · July 4

This is a timely thread as I'm just about to embark on the 'preset per song' mission for the first time ever.

At the moment (with the Whitesnake tribute) I have five basic sounds:
Clean 1
Clean 2 (80's Clean with Chorus etc)
Rhythm
Lead 1
Lead 2 / Solo

I've been thinking it might be handy to programme a few patches with Steve Vai type sounds for a few of the tunes to keep it interesting and varied, so a preset per song with 5 tones might be the best way to go.

The heart of my rig is a TC G System. The set list rarely changes (which is handy as moving presets around in the G System doesn't seem possible / easy).

hassleham · July 16

I’ve got an HX Stomp XL for this.. probably one of the best bits of gear I’ve ever bought!

Each bank has 4 presets, and each preset has 6 switchable effects (or 8 if you use external controllers)

For my main function band I have 3 go-to presets which are all built more or less the same with drive, boost, chorus, delay, reverb, auto filter. 1 preset is set so that my exp. pedal adjusts feedback and level of the delay which allows me to make it self oscillate (tastefully) which is really nice for washy ambient stuff or solos

Image: /plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/grimace.png

The next preset is exactly the same but my exp pedal works as a standard wah pedal.
The last preset is for heavier songs or songs where I have a big guitar solo so my overall volume is louder and boost is even louder still, but all fx the same.

The 4th preset is mostly unused but I keep a tremolo effect with the exp. pedal controlling speed from slow to fast. just in case i fancy using it.

For gigs where I’m not using an amp, or if my amp blows up, i have amp sim presets with the exact same format as the four presets above, stored in another bank.

Most of the set is done with those presets as my job is mainly funk/rock rhythm guitar type stuff with a few lead bits. We have a keys player and I also play synth sometimes (depending what type of set we’re playing) so don’t get to go nuts with the fx on guitar that much. But Little Lies for example I use a synth lead tone on my guitar so for that one I store the preset in a separate bank and it loads with everything ON. So two pedal taps (bank up, select LittleLies preset) and it’s ready for me to start the song, and the same to get back to my standard presets for the song after.

It’s amazing how easy it is to copy and tweak presets, or build a new one from scratch. Obviously there is software for editing patches on computer but most of the time I just menu dive on the pedal because it’s so easy. The only thing that I found pretty complex is getting the HX to send midi messages to the strymon sunset but I’ve managed to get that working so that it loads my default drive settings each time I change preset, ignoring how the knobs on the sunset are set, which is all i need it to do at the moment.

Glad I made the switch from many individual pedals on a messy board to just using the HX stomp for pretty much everything!

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Changing song/setlist on a pedalboard

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