Baritone or not - need help understanding!

Jonathanthomas83

So I like to think I'm open-minded about gear, but have always ruled out 7-strings and Baritones thinking that a guitars were made to fill one sonic space in a mix, why mess with that?

However, I'm want to learn more about Baritone guitars...what's the primary reason for playing a baritone over a regular guitar? What makes it different, scale length? Is it still EADGBE or is that the point...to go lower?

Sorry for the noob questions, just intrigued and know nothing...also a little bit scared of having to learn new instruments/tunings!

stimpsonslostson

Baritones are tuned in A or B standard. 

I have a BassVI that's tuned E-e standard but an octave down, it bridges the gap between guitar & bass quite nicely. 

Sporky

Baritone is a lower tuning - typically B-B. Baritone guitars usually have a longer scale length.

They're very nice for solo work - just more depth.

digitalscream

I think they're usually around 27" - 28" scale length, the point being to be able to go lower with the tuning without losing string tension (and without having to go for really thick strings).

stimpsonslostson

digitalscream said:

I think they're usually around 27" - 28" scale length, the point being to be able to go lower with the tuning without losing string tension (and without having to go for really thick strings).

Yup my VI is 30" and has a 
100 low E, anything​ less (like the factory stock 86) feel like rubber bands & rattle like mad.  

Jonathanthomas83

Thanks guys, appreciate the input.

Loobs

stimpsonslostson said:

Baritones are tuned in A or B standard. 

I have a BassVI that's tuned E-e standard but an octave down, it bridges the gap between guitar & bass quite nicely. 

I always thought a true baritone was E-E. 

Sporky

That'd give it the same lowest note as a bass...

guitarfishbay

You can tune to B on any instrument but the shorter the scale the thicker the string you need to get the same tension and that can mean less attack in the sound and also less good intonation (mostly on the lowest string).

I tune to a low B but use standard scale instruments. I find I need an .064 for the low B to feel nice. I do find the 0.64 goes dead sounding before my other strings.

I would like to try more baritone options as there seems to be more choice these days

Loobs

I know. 

The original baritones (actually Bass VI) were tuned E-E. Duane Eddy, Glen Campbell Wichita Lineman etc. 

I think the B-B baritone thing is more recent. 

Loobs

Also, a 'Bass VI' doesnt really sound that much like a bass. 

Sporky

I'm pretty sure the "Bass" bit of the name "Bass VI" answers the question of whether it's a baritone or a bass...

ICBM

Traditionally E-E tuning is still called baritone even though the lower range is the same as a bass, because it's played differently and serves a different purpose to a bass. You do definitely need a longer scale for this, usually 30".

But if you think about it, you can use a standard scale for B-B baritones...

… because on a standard guitar the second string is tuned to B, so you can use exactly the same string gauge, eg a 13, and scale length to tune it to B as a first string - it's just in a different place. Same with the G, although it becomes an F# so you may want to go up one gauge - but a 17 still seems to work fine. The D, A and E are all the same but moved over one position which just leaves the low B as a problem. Usually about a 60 to 65 works well - if you can't find a guitar string that heavy, get a *double* ball end bass string and cut off the end with the normal bass ball end - the other end is the same size as a guitar.

I've set up several normal guitars - mostly Telecasters - like this, tuned B-B with 13-60 or 13-65 strings, and they work perfectly. I've even done one tuned A-A with 15 to 75 with a wound 22 second (E) string, and that was fine too, even with a Bigsby. The only mod you need to do normally is widening the nut grooves. It can be a problem getting a string larger than a 60 into the post hole on some machineheads, but you can either drill out the hole slightly, or unwrap the outer winding to just short of the hole before you fit it.

hopkins

I don't think that there is a standard definition of a "baritone guitar" - it just tends to refer to guitars with a significantly longer scale length than the typical Fender 25.5".  In physical terms, for a given tension you can lower the tuning either by fattening the string or by increasing the scale length.  Fattening the string adversely affects the intonation, and how much of a problem this for a given piece of music is is a matter of opinion.

The first question you need to ask yourself is "do I want to play in a lower than standard tuning"?  If "yes", then just de-tune your guitar and see how it feels/sounds.  If the strings are too floppy (very likely), then try a thicker set.  If you don't like the thicker strings or if you find that the guitar doesn't sound as in-tune with itself, then maybe a longer scale length will be what you need.  Even so, make sure you try it out first - the longer scale length can make it trickier and/or less comfortable to play depending on what you are playing and how big you are.

Sporky

Thing is, for every other instrument, baritone is between bass and tenor...

ICBM

Sporky said:

Thing is, for every other instrument, baritone is between bass and tenor…

Which makes a standard-tuned guitar a baritone .

UnclePsychosis

Given the mangling of the word "tremolo" when it comes to guitar design its probably asking a bit much to expect anyone to get the distinction between bass/baritone/tenor right ;-)

Sporky

ICBM said:

Sporky said:

Thing is, for every other instrument, baritone is between bass and tenor…

Which makes a standard-tuned guitar a baritone .

Indeed.

Drop that an octave (like the Bass VI) and you're obviously not in the same range.

Sporky

Though really, tenor guitars should be alto guitars, leaving regular guitars as tenor guitars, leaving room for baritones before you get down to basses.

ToneControl

27-28 inch guitars play very well with normal or one gauge up, tuned D-D
you can put C-C on a 28 or 28.5 inch
30 inch can do B-B

going lower than these sounds weird to me, the guitars stop being as musical

like an FX pedal turned to max, the lowest possible baritone tuning for each guitar is much less useful than a subtle effect
e.g. a 27 inch tele tuned D-D has a little extra growl. However, tune it lower  and is sounds less like a guitar, and plays less like a guitar 

olafgarten

Sporky said:

Thing is, for every other instrument, baritone is between bass and tenor...

The Guitar does have a very wide range, if you label it with the standard vocal classifications, the Guitar goes from Bass to Soprano.