Like driving? Like driving fast? I'm going to ruin your evening.

ToneControl

ThePrettyDamned said:

Bucket said:

I was once a passenger in a car where the driver was doing near enough 70 in a 40 and it was truly terrifying. I would never, ever drive that far above the speed limit.

I've only been done once, I have the course in a couple of weeks. Got caught doing 36 just after the limit changed from 40 down to 30. I'm still annoyed about that one. It was almost midnight and the road was quiet, I was in full control and it was well within my capabilities to stop had there been an emergency. But whatever, they got me and now I have to cough up and shut up.

The only place my speed is ever consistently above the limit is motorways - my average is probably more like 80. I should probably knock that on the head but really, 70 feels fucking slow and I have places to be.

I tend to think, when I hear that, "how long is the journey?". 

Let's say it's 50 miles on a motorway. At 70mph, it'll take you a few seconds under 43 minutes. 

50 miles at 80mph on a motorway will take you 37 minutes 30 seconds. 

So, 6 minutes saved, give or take. 

Or you could leave ten minutes earlier, not speed, not risk getting fined/points AND beat the peens who insist on going 80mph. 

Or you could leave about 5 minutes earlier and roughly time match. 

That's when travelling 50 miles. So on a 100 mile journey on a motorway, consistently being 80mph will save you a whopping 12 minutes. What will you do with all that extra time?  

I'm being a bit facetious, but I used to do the same until I sat down and did the maths - it's really not worth it, the journey times barely change and it just increases the risk of being pulled over, and the rest of the population think you're a twat. 

Most people on the motorway (around here) SEEM to use it for a relatively short commute of 50 miles or less. For me, it was about 15 miles - at which point, going 80mph saves a minute and a bit compared to going 70mph, which of course doesn't really help me get to work on time. 

A large part of the reason that I stay in the middle and right lane doing 80 or so is that it's safer
Hanging around the left 2 lanes with the trucks is intrinsically more dangerous, given their massive inertia
It's much safer to go in a separate lane

benecol

*glances up*

Cannot. Tell. If. Deliberately. Trolling.

guitarfishbay

ToneControl said:

A large part of the reason that I stay in the middle and right lane doing 80 or so is that it's safer
Hanging around the left 2 lanes with the trucks is intrinsically more dangerous, given their massive inertia
It's much safer to go in a separate lane

I'm not denying it's likely to be more catastrophic to be involved in an accident with a truck - but the general driving style in the fast lane is often only safer by chance (as in, so long as nobody crashes).

If there was an accident there'd be a concertina effect in a lot of situations in the fast lane. A lot of speeding drivers seem to think it's acceptable to drive an unsafe distance from another car whether it's feasible for them to pull in or not. 

randella

ToneControl said:

A large part of the reason that I stay in the middle and right lane doing 80 or so is that it's safer
Hanging around the left 2 lanes with the trucks is intrinsically more dangerous, given their massive inertia
It's much safer to go in a separate lane

You have to concede though that the point of having rules on the road is that it makes everyone do the same thing.  On the motorway, everyone should use the inside unless they're overtaking.

I know it's not the case, I bet not a single person here can attest to sticking to that rule all the time - especially when the road's hammered with trucks.  But when it's not full of lorries a lot of folk carry on doing the same thing.

The more a rule's broken the more you start to see less benign and more dangerous exceptions.  The current favourite seems to be trying to join a motorway by battering your way up the slip road 30mph faster than the traffic in the inside lane, before carving right to the outside without indicating.

There does need to be some semblance of recognition that the rules serve a purpose.

Budgie

'Kin hell, I pulled off my drive earlier, which is a little concealed and due to the long bonnet on the car is slightly tricky to see to the right. Not usually a problem as vehicles coming from that direction have a clear view if anything is pulling out. I tend to ease out gradually and then just go when I have a clear view. I did just that that a short while ago and yet another dipshit who seems to think the speed limits are irrelevant starts flashing his lights and sounding his horn from about 100 metres away, which at 30mph would be no problem at all. I reckon this bellend was going nearly double that. As he was passing he was screaming his head off. I gave him the inverted thumb to tell him to slow down and he went mental, slamming his brakes on etc. I was watching in the mirror, thinking FFS. He actually tried doing a three point turn but luckily a lorry was coming from the other way which stopped him and I was away. The road is a Main road but the limits are for the whole village, which is perhaps 2/3 mile long. My drive is right in the middle of the 30 limit, so anyone has loads of time to sort their speed out.

This is twice in less than 24 hours where some effing asshat has had a go despite them being massively out of order. This is either going to end up with an accident, me getting a kicking or me handing one out. 

What at the fuck is wrong with people. It ain't complicated, don't drive like a twat and if you do, expect people to take a dim view. At this point, I'm actually wishing the tosser had managed to turn around and had caught up. 

strtdv

The reason you can get a speed awareness course for doing 35 in a 30 is twofold.

Firstly, you're 4x more likely to kill a pedestrian if you hit them at 35 vs 30.

 Secondly the police have "discretion margins" ie you're unlikely to get a ticket doing 46 in a 40, but those don't apply in a 30. You can end up on a speed awareness course for doing 32 in a 30.

I got a fixed penalty notice for doing 92 on the motorway (I reckon I was doing more like 88 but I didn't argue as I had been doing 115 earlier). It didn't slow me down at all (at the time I felt the police should be doing more useful things than catching people doing 90 at 1am on empty motorways).
I was young and always in a rush.

As I get older I find I'm in less of a hurry anyway, and although I drive a faster car, I drive it more slowly.

ThePrettyDamned

ToneControl said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Bucket said:

I was once a passenger in a car where the driver was doing near enough 70 in a 40 and it was truly terrifying. I would never, ever drive that far above the speed limit.

I've only been done once, I have the course in a couple of weeks. Got caught doing 36 just after the limit changed from 40 down to 30. I'm still annoyed about that one. It was almost midnight and the road was quiet, I was in full control and it was well within my capabilities to stop had there been an emergency. But whatever, they got me and now I have to cough up and shut up.

The only place my speed is ever consistently above the limit is motorways - my average is probably more like 80. I should probably knock that on the head but really, 70 feels fucking slow and I have places to be.

I tend to think, when I hear that, "how long is the journey?". 

Let's say it's 50 miles on a motorway. At 70mph, it'll take you a few seconds under 43 minutes. 

50 miles at 80mph on a motorway will take you 37 minutes 30 seconds. 

So, 6 minutes saved, give or take. 

Or you could leave ten minutes earlier, not speed, not risk getting fined/points AND beat the peens who insist on going 80mph. 

Or you could leave about 5 minutes earlier and roughly time match. 

That's when travelling 50 miles. So on a 100 mile journey on a motorway, consistently being 80mph will save you a whopping 12 minutes. What will you do with all that extra time?  

I'm being a bit facetious, but I used to do the same until I sat down and did the maths - it's really not worth it, the journey times barely change and it just increases the risk of being pulled over, and the rest of the population think you're a twat. 

Most people on the motorway (around here) SEEM to use it for a relatively short commute of 50 miles or less. For me, it was about 15 miles - at which point, going 80mph saves a minute and a bit compared to going 70mph, which of course doesn't really help me get to work on time. 

A large part of the reason that I stay in the middle and right lane doing 80 or so is that it's safer
Hanging around the left 2 lanes with the trucks is intrinsically more dangerous, given their massive inertia
It's much safer to go in a separate lane

Well yes, don't hang out in a cluster of lorries as they have reduced visibility and are more likely to be involved in an accident. That's precisely *what* the right lane is for - overtaking. 

But it's zoomwombles who cruise at 80-90mph who speed right into my sphincter while I'm overtaking that row of dangerous lorries, safely, who are convinced they're so important they must reach destination 5 minutes faster than anyone else. Then they might start flashing me - or swearing at me - maybe they'll even honk their horns, because they can't believe someone would only be doing 70mph to overtake vehicles limited to 56mph. That someone has slowed me down by all of ten seconds, perhaps even twenty!

They are the ones who actively stop people using the right lanes correctly - they use it to cruise at high speed, not what it's for. And that encourages others to do it. 

Raise the limit to 80mph? Great idea! Then these same zoomwombles who currently do 80-90mph will be happy, right? Nah mate, they'll insist it's safer for them to cruise at 90-100mph. Because zoomwombling is safe. So long as no silly law abiding folk decide they need to overtake some lorries, and if they do, you can just flash and beep them until they get back into their lane, right? Perhaps you'll unnerve them and make them make a mistake! What fun. So long as they don't hold up anyone important. 

If not for drivers like that, perhaps the lanes would be used more appropriately and they'd be less accidents that cause 1 hour + journey time increases while they scrape bits of BMW off the tarmac. 

Yes, I appreciate there are dangerous slow drivers too, who sit in the middle lane at 56mph because they don't like going any faster. They fall into the same category as those who compulsively speed - they're simply bad drivers. 

randella

ThePrettyDamned said:

Raise the limit to 80mph? Great idea! Then these same zoomwombles who currently do 80-90mph will be happy, right? Nah mate, they'll insist it's safer for them to cruise at 90-100mph. Because zoomwombling is safe. So long as no silly law abiding folk decide they need to overtake some lorries, and if they do, you can just flash and beep them until they get back into their lane, right? Perhaps you'll unnerve them and make them make a mistake! What fun. So long as they don't hold up anyone important. 

I suspect it's part of the reason they've not raised the limit to 80 and taken the softly, softly approach instead.  Let's face it, they've not enforced the 70 limit for years unless they clock you absolutely taking the piss.

guitarfishbay

Even then you can avoid a ban if you can successfully plead exceptional hardship.

Nikko

Cirrus said:

marantz1300 said:

the cops are out in force with their radar traps in Essex at the moment.

all over the brow of a hill , hiding in drives.

nicking people for doing 35 in a 30 on roads that have no accidents

It's just another council tax.

If only there was some way, some method drivers could use, to avoid getting a speeding fine. That'd show the greedy money grabbing bastards.

Exactly this!

If you think about it for just a moment...You would probably be making more of a statement to 'the establishment' by NOT speeding. By not speeding, they cant rely on speeding fines.

...but then, they would have to find another way of extracting cash from people, which would affect everyone. Booooooooo

ThePrettyDamned

I must admit, whenever I hear people say speeding fines are just a way to tax people, I tend to think it's just a stupid tax. 

If you don't want to pay the tax, it's really easy to avoid it. 

That said, there is a pretty well hidden speed sign near me. It's from a 40mph zone heading into national limit - so in theory no one would speed through it, but I appreciate that signs should be visible. 

Of course, where there are regular street lamps, it's safest to assume it's a 30mph zone until proven otherwise. 

MatthewShreddery

@Budgie - the reason you keep getting into confrontational situations is because you are gesticulating to drivers. Try to remain calm and don't provoke these idiots. 

Budgie

@MatthewShreddery ; While I appreciate your point, I have to say I'm not overly bothered about getting into confrontational situations with these people, I'm quite capable of looking after myself. It's difficult to accept that I have to remain passive just in case I happen to offend aggressive morons who are putting the lives of my family and neighbours in jeopardy by driving like arseholes. The police are zero use, so what options are there? The moment some people get into a car, they turn into colossal dickheads. 

MatthewShreddery

@Budgie - I agree with you, but what happens if the next person you provoke gets out of the car with 3 of his mates and they kick the shit out of you?

english_bob

Bucket said:

I wouldn't dream of going significantly over the speed limit in any situation where it was more likely I could injure someone.

Surely that's what every motorist who's ever killed or injured someone said.

Cirrus

If I die, think only this of me:

THERE IS A NEW GOD IN HEAVEN.

Budgie

@MatthewShreddery  You're right of course. Although, I disagree with the idea that I'm provoking anything other than putting the idea into their minds that they are driving way too fast. I am definitely not being evangelical about it and am not too fussed if people are driving a little too fast. The bloke last night was doing 51mph, which is just fecking stupid in a residential area with a 30mph limit.

Babones

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-39664987

ToneControl

ThePrettyDamned said:

ToneControl said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Bucket said:

I was once a passenger in a car where the driver was doing near enough 70 in a 40 and it was truly terrifying. I would never, ever drive that far above the speed limit.

I've only been done once, I have the course in a couple of weeks. Got caught doing 36 just after the limit changed from 40 down to 30. I'm still annoyed about that one. It was almost midnight and the road was quiet, I was in full control and it was well within my capabilities to stop had there been an emergency. But whatever, they got me and now I have to cough up and shut up.

The only place my speed is ever consistently above the limit is motorways - my average is probably more like 80. I should probably knock that on the head but really, 70 feels fucking slow and I have places to be.

I tend to think, when I hear that, "how long is the journey?". 

Let's say it's 50 miles on a motorway. At 70mph, it'll take you a few seconds under 43 minutes. 

50 miles at 80mph on a motorway will take you 37 minutes 30 seconds. 

So, 6 minutes saved, give or take. 

Or you could leave ten minutes earlier, not speed, not risk getting fined/points AND beat the peens who insist on going 80mph. 

Or you could leave about 5 minutes earlier and roughly time match. 

That's when travelling 50 miles. So on a 100 mile journey on a motorway, consistently being 80mph will save you a whopping 12 minutes. What will you do with all that extra time?  

I'm being a bit facetious, but I used to do the same until I sat down and did the maths - it's really not worth it, the journey times barely change and it just increases the risk of being pulled over, and the rest of the population think you're a twat. 

Most people on the motorway (around here) SEEM to use it for a relatively short commute of 50 miles or less. For me, it was about 15 miles - at which point, going 80mph saves a minute and a bit compared to going 70mph, which of course doesn't really help me get to work on time. 

A large part of the reason that I stay in the middle and right lane doing 80 or so is that it's safer
Hanging around the left 2 lanes with the trucks is intrinsically more dangerous, given their massive inertia
It's much safer to go in a separate lane

Well yes, don't hang out in a cluster of lorries as they have reduced visibility and are more likely to be involved in an accident. That's precisely *what* the right lane is for - overtaking. 

But it's zoomwombles who cruise at 80-90mph who speed right into my sphincter while I'm overtaking that row of dangerous lorries, safely, who are convinced they're so important they must reach destination 5 minutes faster than anyone else. Then they might start flashing me - or swearing at me - maybe they'll even honk their horns, because they can't believe someone would only be doing 70mph to overtake vehicles limited to 56mph. That someone has slowed me down by all of ten seconds, perhaps even twenty!

They are the ones who actively stop people using the right lanes correctly - they use it to cruise at high speed, not what it's for. And that encourages others to do it. 

Raise the limit to 80mph? Great idea! Then these same zoomwombles who currently do 80-90mph will be happy, right? Nah mate, they'll insist it's safer for them to cruise at 90-100mph. Because zoomwombling is safe. So long as no silly law abiding folk decide they need to overtake some lorries, and if they do, you can just flash and beep them until they get back into their lane, right? Perhaps you'll unnerve them and make them make a mistake! What fun. So long as they don't hold up anyone important. 

If not for drivers like that, perhaps the lanes would be used more appropriately and they'd be less accidents that cause 1 hour + journey time increases while they scrape bits of BMW off the tarmac. 

Yes, I appreciate there are dangerous slow drivers too, who sit in the middle lane at 56mph because they don't like going any faster. They fall into the same category as those who compulsively speed - they're simply bad drivers. 

my opinions were formed by 25 years of commuting between 60 and 150 miles a day on motorways
I asked about  5-6 policemen what speed is ok, and they all said 80mph will attract no attention, unless you go overtaking policecars. Given the fact I've never had a speeding ticket, they were clearly correct

Typically people spread out and improve the capacity and safety of the road by using all 3 lanes, are you proposing that the outside lane should remain empty, even when the inside 2 are full already?

I do find it odd when people inconsiderately pull out in front of me because it's the convenient moment for them to overtake, regardless of the fact they're doing 55-60, whilst you're doing 70 and thus have to brake, along with everyone behind you

This is what happens when people get too precious about using the outside lane:
http://home.bt.com/images/middle-lane-hogging-136398900059303901-150626103115.jpg

anyway, to be pedantic: see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/motorways-253-to-273 ;

"Rule 264

You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, traffic officers in uniform or by signs."

So, if there are 25 slow cars/lorries in the middle lane, I drive past them all until there is a safe gap, I don't overtake one at a time, in some OCD fashion, forcing back into the a small gap in the middle lane after every manoeuvre.

It's clear to me that the safety of a motorway is derived from the lack of need to change lanes, so the less lane changes made, the safer everyone is. In my years of 2 hours a day commutes, I have observed little problem on the motorways - everyone sticks at the speed they prefer, and almost everyone is considerate and courteous. However, driving at weekends and holidays with inexperienced town-drivers is a different matter, far more defensive driving is needed

Strangefan

ThePrettyDamned said:

Because on an analogue speedometer on sports bike the difference between 30 and 35 is nothing, if I were to constantly keep to 30 ridgedly the I would shave to be looking at the speedo every other second, and it was at 11am at night, on a dark country road, I have better things to look out for like badgers, potholes sharp corners... 

The chances are that if you were clocked at 35, you were closer to 37-40 on the speedo. Most (if not all) speedos read over true speed as it's illegal for them to read under it. 

If that is not the case, maybe get someone to take a look at it. In any case, if 30 and 35mph are so close together on it you can't tell the difference, it's either time for contact lenses or you need a better, more road appropriate speedo that is much clearer. 





Thanks for that dad  

The speedos fine but again ain't nice on country roads, in the dark.