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Update on search for inexpensive versatile gigging guitar - Variax JTV59, Pacifica 611/612
Rather than this getting lost at the end of the original thread, I thought I'd start a new thread on my progress, and feedback on a couple of suggested guitars that I've now tried.
So, this afternoon I visited Yamaha in Wardour Street. Lovely store. loads of Yamaha, Line 6 gear etc, and I was superbly looked after by a lovely guy called Bradley who was very personable, friendly & helpful, but not pushy - he exhibited the perfect balance that you want from a store - he was readily available to help & answer queries when needed, but otherwise left me to play with absolutely no sales pressure. Bradley told me they will also price match with the bigger outlets, and if you buy a guitar they will set this up to your personal requirements re strings & action so I have no hesitation in recommending them as a good store to go to.
The amp I used for all the guitars was a THR10 (standard cream one) which was perfectly adequate for putting various guitars through their paces.
Variax JTV59
Although the action was set a little higher than I like and it was fitted with 10's or 11's (I play 009-042's) I was very impressed with the build quality and the 'natural' pick-up tones which were very respectable. I especially liked how the neck joined the body, as it made higher fret access a bit easier. It really is a 'proper' guitar and a lot better than the earlier Variax models.
I loved the ability to go into open D etc (borrowed a slide whilst there), and do drop D etc although for some strange reason the 'Standard' & 'Drop D' settings on the dial were reversed.
With regards to the Variax modelling tones, I have to say I was very disappointed because to my ears the tones just weren't 'inspiring' and many of the electric models either didn't sound that dis-similar or they just didn't sound remotely authentic. The Tele tones weren't bad to be fair, but the 59 Les Paul (and I have played a real one at Sam Ash in New York) & Strat tones simply didn't sound right, and the Ric 12-string just wasn't jangly in the way a real Ric 12 is. The acoustic models were reasonable although I'm sure they'd sound better through an acoustic guitar amp.
Tones aside, operation wise it was just too fiddly for me. Being an oldie I'm used to rolling off the volume & tone and I had to remember that the model selection and tuning option controls were not volume or tone controls! But using this at a live gig would I think be a nightmare for my poor old befuddled head in trying to remember which sound was which and where to position the p/up selector - on some models it acted like a standard p/p selector, but on others it changed the guitar being modelled.
I'm sure in the right hands, especially controlling something like the Helix, its probably great & great fun to mess around with at home. But for what I need on stage it just isn't for me - I have enough to remember re patch-setting & p/up selector position & unfortunately the Variax is just too much for me to cope with live at a gig. But it was still a valuable positive experience in trying it & really emphasises the value of trying stuff before buying!
Yamaha Pacifica 611hfm (hardtail), 611 vfm (trem model), and 612 V2fm (HSS)
All the colours (translucent blue, translucent black, and root beer) were very nice - my personal favourite was the blue. Bradley told me that there were some new silk colours coming too (with an 'X' suffix I think - not sure if there are any other spec differences or not) The guitars looked and felt (for the most part) like professional instruments. Similar comments re action & string gauge to the Variax.
The 'standard' 611 has a P90 neck, and H/B bridge which were the ones I tried. But Bradley told me that if you buy from Yamaha Music, they can supply the 611 in whatever other combination of p/ups you wanted eg P90 bridge and H/B neck, 2 x P90's, 2 x H/B.
The neck looked very nice from the back, quite vintage in colour, and was comfortable to play. Frets looked good and well finished and whilst the neck felt reasonably chunky it wasn't overly so and felt very comfortable - in fact it was not unlike the neck on my 69 Strat. Paint finish and build was pretty much flawless, the nut was very good, tuners were great and it was plain to see that Yamaha has made a really big effort to make this a truly professional feel guitar that's a cut above within its price range.
I think the P90 mix with the H/B is a stroke of genius. The pick-up tones from the humbucker (bridge), coil-tapping (push pull) and P90 neck) were just lovely. These would definitely cover the type of tones I need and I really loved the extra dimension the P90 gives. You can still get those nice 'hollow' Stratty in-between tones, but whereas normal single coils can sometimes be quite 'harsh' and/or overly bright, the P90 added a slightly warmer, smoother dimension to the tone which I liked very much.
The 611 vfm sounded and felt just a tad more 'resonant' than the hardtail hfm, but that's probably not surprising - it's the same type of thing with hardtail v floating bridge strats. Not a massive difference by any means, but there was a difference.
When I said 'for the most part' earlier, unfortunately there was one thing which lets the guitar down somewhat & which I think Yamaha needs to address - and that's the trem on the vfm versions. There are two issues with the trem (& it was the same on the 612 v2fm, HSS variant) :
With regards the 612 V2fm, same great quality but with HSS configuration. Before I played it I really thought I'd prefer it to the 611 vfm, but although the HSS format is more 'traditional' and with the coil-tap it gives 7 p/up combination options as opposed to 5 options with the 611, to my surprise I actually preferred the tonal variations of the 611 as these were more 'pronounced', whereas some of the 612 options were less so and felt 'thinner'. Purely just a matter of personal taste of course.
Trem aside, the 611 and 612 are fine guitars and very good value - and the 611 vfm is a definite contender. With regards my concern that the 611 might be a wee bit too narrow at the nut - I didn't even remember to think about it, never noticed it when playing, and it only popped into my head as I'm writing this - so that just shows how completely inconsequential that concern was.
Sorry this post has gone on a bit longer than I expected, but as quite a few folk have taken the time & trouble to share their recommendations I just wanted to feedback and share my experience & thoughts on a couple of the kind suggestions offered.
Rich
So, this afternoon I visited Yamaha in Wardour Street. Lovely store. loads of Yamaha, Line 6 gear etc, and I was superbly looked after by a lovely guy called Bradley who was very personable, friendly & helpful, but not pushy - he exhibited the perfect balance that you want from a store - he was readily available to help & answer queries when needed, but otherwise left me to play with absolutely no sales pressure. Bradley told me they will also price match with the bigger outlets, and if you buy a guitar they will set this up to your personal requirements re strings & action so I have no hesitation in recommending them as a good store to go to.
The amp I used for all the guitars was a THR10 (standard cream one) which was perfectly adequate for putting various guitars through their paces.
Variax JTV59
Although the action was set a little higher than I like and it was fitted with 10's or 11's (I play 009-042's) I was very impressed with the build quality and the 'natural' pick-up tones which were very respectable. I especially liked how the neck joined the body, as it made higher fret access a bit easier. It really is a 'proper' guitar and a lot better than the earlier Variax models.
I loved the ability to go into open D etc (borrowed a slide whilst there), and do drop D etc although for some strange reason the 'Standard' & 'Drop D' settings on the dial were reversed.
With regards to the Variax modelling tones, I have to say I was very disappointed because to my ears the tones just weren't 'inspiring' and many of the electric models either didn't sound that dis-similar or they just didn't sound remotely authentic. The Tele tones weren't bad to be fair, but the 59 Les Paul (and I have played a real one at Sam Ash in New York) & Strat tones simply didn't sound right, and the Ric 12-string just wasn't jangly in the way a real Ric 12 is. The acoustic models were reasonable although I'm sure they'd sound better through an acoustic guitar amp.
Tones aside, operation wise it was just too fiddly for me. Being an oldie I'm used to rolling off the volume & tone and I had to remember that the model selection and tuning option controls were not volume or tone controls! But using this at a live gig would I think be a nightmare for my poor old befuddled head in trying to remember which sound was which and where to position the p/up selector - on some models it acted like a standard p/p selector, but on others it changed the guitar being modelled.
I'm sure in the right hands, especially controlling something like the Helix, its probably great & great fun to mess around with at home. But for what I need on stage it just isn't for me - I have enough to remember re patch-setting & p/up selector position & unfortunately the Variax is just too much for me to cope with live at a gig. But it was still a valuable positive experience in trying it & really emphasises the value of trying stuff before buying!
Yamaha Pacifica 611hfm (hardtail), 611 vfm (trem model), and 612 V2fm (HSS)
All the colours (translucent blue, translucent black, and root beer) were very nice - my personal favourite was the blue. Bradley told me that there were some new silk colours coming too (with an 'X' suffix I think - not sure if there are any other spec differences or not) The guitars looked and felt (for the most part) like professional instruments. Similar comments re action & string gauge to the Variax.
The 'standard' 611 has a P90 neck, and H/B bridge which were the ones I tried. But Bradley told me that if you buy from Yamaha Music, they can supply the 611 in whatever other combination of p/ups you wanted eg P90 bridge and H/B neck, 2 x P90's, 2 x H/B.
The neck looked very nice from the back, quite vintage in colour, and was comfortable to play. Frets looked good and well finished and whilst the neck felt reasonably chunky it wasn't overly so and felt very comfortable - in fact it was not unlike the neck on my 69 Strat. Paint finish and build was pretty much flawless, the nut was very good, tuners were great and it was plain to see that Yamaha has made a really big effort to make this a truly professional feel guitar that's a cut above within its price range.
I think the P90 mix with the H/B is a stroke of genius. The pick-up tones from the humbucker (bridge), coil-tapping (push pull) and P90 neck) were just lovely. These would definitely cover the type of tones I need and I really loved the extra dimension the P90 gives. You can still get those nice 'hollow' Stratty in-between tones, but whereas normal single coils can sometimes be quite 'harsh' and/or overly bright, the P90 added a slightly warmer, smoother dimension to the tone which I liked very much.
The 611 vfm sounded and felt just a tad more 'resonant' than the hardtail hfm, but that's probably not surprising - it's the same type of thing with hardtail v floating bridge strats. Not a massive difference by any means, but there was a difference.
When I said 'for the most part' earlier, unfortunately there was one thing which lets the guitar down somewhat & which I think Yamaha needs to address - and that's the trem on the vfm versions. There are two issues with the trem (& it was the same on the 612 v2fm, HSS variant) :
- Trem arm fitting. This is a push fit, which is simpler than a screw fit, but it is much, much too loose. If you like the trem arm really floppy so it drops away when you let it go, this is fine. But if you prefer some grip' and want it to stay in position then it won't. In fact it's so loose that if you turn the guitar over, the arm drops straight out.
- Trem action. There is a tremendous amount of play where the trem bar just 'jiggles' before it does anything. And when it does 'kick-in' (so to speak) it lacks feel - fine for big 'bends' but hopeless for subtle 'shimmers'.
With regards the 612 V2fm, same great quality but with HSS configuration. Before I played it I really thought I'd prefer it to the 611 vfm, but although the HSS format is more 'traditional' and with the coil-tap it gives 7 p/up combination options as opposed to 5 options with the 611, to my surprise I actually preferred the tonal variations of the 611 as these were more 'pronounced', whereas some of the 612 options were less so and felt 'thinner'. Purely just a matter of personal taste of course.
Trem aside, the 611 and 612 are fine guitars and very good value - and the 611 vfm is a definite contender. With regards my concern that the 611 might be a wee bit too narrow at the nut - I didn't even remember to think about it, never noticed it when playing, and it only popped into my head as I'm writing this - so that just shows how completely inconsequential that concern was.
Sorry this post has gone on a bit longer than I expected, but as quite a few folk have taken the time & trouble to share their recommendations I just wanted to feedback and share my experience & thoughts on a couple of the kind suggestions offered.
Rich
I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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Comments
That store sounds amazing! The staff sound good too, which is great endorsement in this age of impersonal click n collect shopping.
Like you i like the idea of the Variax, but am not sure I'd use all the settings... I'd just get confused & end up playing the Stairway solo on the sitar. I'd love to play with one for a week though!
If you didn't notice the nut being narrow then maybe you'd be fine- I'm a bassist originally, so i found my 510v a wee bit tight. I could have lived with it, but saw something "better" & we all know how that story ends!
Regarding the trem arm- there's a screw on the block that lets you adjust the tightness of the fit. This SHOULD allow you to have a static bar when you release it (& might make it more responsive too).
Let us know how it turns out.
And thanks for the heads up too re the screw on the block to adjust the tightness of the fit. I must admit I didn't notice any adjustment screw but I'll certainly look out for this next time - I'm just slightly puzzled that the Yamaha guys didn't seem to be aware of this.
UPDATE: Just looked at a close up pic of the vfm bridge - there's no adjustment screw I can see - are you sure @stimpsonslostson & if so can you clarify exactly where the adjustment screw is located?
There is a small screw on the back of the trem block, if you dive the trem you can see it.
A friend of mine asked me to take a look at his 510v which had a really lose arm, I wasn't sure, but saw the allen screw and thought I'd give it a go.
It's strange really, my friends always ask me to fix things when really I have no idea what I'm doing.
Some of you may remember that I moved a Pacifica 311H on a year or two back that I really didn’t get on with so the 611 may seem a strange choice. And to be honest I wasn’t expecting it to be much different. The truth, though, is that it is quite a different beast. The SD pickups are in a completely different league to Yamaha’s own units fitted to the 311 - less aggressive, smoother, and harmonically richer. I suspect the Graphtech saddles also help tame some of the brightness that affected my old 311. Although on paper the necks are the same size the 611 actually felt a bit more of handful than the narrow neck on my old instrument.
i know I’m still in the honeymoon period but first impressions are really rather good indeed.