Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III - Drive Channel

CarpeDiem

Does anybody have any tips as to how to get a 'good' sound out of the drive channel of a HRD? Firstly, I appreciate that 'good' is a subjective term! I don't get the opportunity to use the amp over 4.5 on the drive channel or 3.5 on the clean channel. I did try putting a Boss EQ in the effects loop and driving the amp harder, and whilst it sounded a bit better, I still wasn't entirely happy with the sound. I play in two covers bands, with a mix of material, eg GnR, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Foo Fighters, Amy Winehouse. I'm currently only using the clean channel, with overdrive and boost pedals. However, I'm keen to see if I can use the drive channel.

Danny1969

ICBM always claimed the drive channel is usable and I said it wasn't  .... turns out I was wrong because once I actually tried to get a decent drive tone out of it I found I could, just took a bit of adjusting between gain and tone controls. It depends on the guitar but I now find it fine with a Superstrat and normal strat

ICBM

In general I've always found that the best way to set them up is to temporarily ignore the clean channel (I know everyone starts with that) and dial it in for the Drive channel, which is much more fussy - the clean isn't and will largely look after itself over a wider range of settings. Use the bright switch on the clean channel, and and keep the Drive control below half if you intend to use More Drive, otherwise it's too much.

I have discovered something frustrating though - the MkIII doesn't sound as good as the MkII. I thought I was imagining it with the first one, but I've played several of them now and felt the same every time. Sure, they've addressed the usual moan about the volume control tapers - although like the Drive channel, I never really understood why that was such a big problem - but the amp now just sounds flatter and less lively, unless you turn it up further than the old one! One step forward and two steps back in my opinion.

... and that black control panel is just horrible.

Modulus_Amps

Looking at that schematic that drive channel will not get any of those classic hard rock band sounds or the feel, best get a different amp or start the journey of finding the right pedals.

ICBM

Modulus_Amps said:

Looking at that schematic that drive channel will not get any of those classic hard rock band sounds

No, definitely not - it's not meant to. It's meant to sound like an overdriven Fender, and it does that very well.

I think the problem is that many people expect it to be a sort of 'Marshall in a box' channel, and when it doesn't do that they write it off as unusable.

ESBlonde

I tend to use the HRD as a pedal platform and as such it is very good. When I do go 'au natural' like in country rock settings, I will use the drive chanel but the gain is around 4 and the guitar volume gets ridden too. That way the tone is suggested as thicker and more creamy. More drive is for scareing small furry animals and I don't tend to use it for music although I'm not a huge fan of a lot of gain crushing my tone.

ICBM

4 is about where I set the Drive if I'm going to use More Drive as well, any higher than that and More gets nasty. But if you're not going to use More at all, Drive is useful all the way up the range - I've actually got the best low-volume Neil Young sound I've ever found like that, with Drive, Bass and Middle all full up.

(Admittedly on a tweed special edition one with the Jensen speaker.)

CarpeDiem

Danny1969 said:

ICBM always claimed the drive channel is usable and I said it wasn't  .... turns out I was wrong because once I actually tried to get a decent drive tone out of it I found I could, just took a bit of adjusting between gain and tone controls. It depends on the guitar but I now find it fine with a Superstrat and normal strat

@Danny1969 Thanks - that's helpful. I'm using a Strat and a Les Paul, although I do use the guitar controls.

CarpeDiem

ICBM said:

4 is about where I set the Drive if I'm going to use More Drive as well, any higher than that and More gets nasty. But if you're not going to use More at all, Drive is useful all the way up the range - I've actually got the best low-volume Neil Young sound I've ever found like that, with Drive, Bass and Middle all full up.

(Admittedly on a tweed special edition one with the Jensen speaker.)

@ICBM Thanks for your various replies. I'd suspected that I was doing something wrong, and starting with getting the clean channel set-up first sounds like my first mistake. My EQ settings have also been a lot lower than you've suggested. I'll get experimenting again!

CarpeDiem

Modulus_Amps said:

Looking at that schematic that drive channel will not get any of those classic hard rock band sounds or the feel, best get a different amp or start the journey of finding the right pedals.

@Modulus_Amps Thanks for your comments. I've been using overdrive pedals as I couldn't get the right sound from the amp in a band context. Like you said, I've gone through the search for the right drive pedal! I started the thread as I suspected that I must have been doing something wrong with the amp settings, especially in view of the number of HRD's that Fender sells.

CarpeDiem

ESBlonde said:

I tend to use the HRD as a pedal platform and as such it is very good. When I do go 'au natural' like in country rock settings, I will use the drive chanel but the gain is around 4 and the guitar volume gets ridden too. That way the tone is suggested as thicker and more creamy. More drive is for scareing small furry animals and I don't tend to use it for music although I'm not a huge fan of a lot of gain crushing my tone.

@ESBlonde Thanks for your comments. I agree with you that it's a good pedal platform, and like you I tend to use the guitar controls. I also try not to using crushing amounts of gain, partly because the definition seems to drop off, and also guitarists in really heavy-sounding bands don't seem to either. Anyway, I wouldn't like to scare little furry animals!

ThePrettyDamned

It won't do hard rock well, but it does do nice driven fender tones. 

If you want it to be more guns n roses, you'll want a visual sound son of Hyde or a similar pedal. 

ICBM

CarpeDiem said:

My EQ settings have also been a lot lower than you've suggested. I'll get experimenting again!

Careful! Bass and middle up full is just for Neil Young . Generally you don't want them that high - start with them all a bit above halfway and adjust from there. Presence usually needs to be quite low.

CarpeDiem

ThePrettyDamned said:

It won't do hard rock well, but it does do nice driven fender tones. 

If you want it to be more guns n roses, you'll want a visual sound son of Hyde or a similar pedal. 

Thanks for your suggestion.

CarpeDiem

ICBM said:

CarpeDiem said:

My EQ settings have also been a lot lower than you've suggested. I'll get experimenting again!

Careful! Bass and middle up full is just for Neil Young . Generally you don't want them that high - start with them all a bit above halfway and adjust from there. Presence usually needs to be quite low.

Thanks for your suggestion. In addition to using different EQ settings before, I must have had the presence too high. I'll try different settings this evening.

thecolourbox

I loved the hot rod deluxe drive channel because it didn't sound Marshally in the slightest, fitted my style of playing perfectly and of it was not so physically big in comparison to the space I have available if have one over my Princeton any day of the week, that goes for both the clean and drive channels. But when I play with overdrive it's for garage style indie rock not the kinds of bands you were going for. For that of you don't want a new amp I'd just get a couple of amp style distortion pedals or a Mesa V Twin to use into the fx loop return

CarpeDiem

CarpeDiem said:

ICBM said:

CarpeDiem said:

My EQ settings have also been a lot lower than you've suggested. I'll get experimenting again!

Careful! Bass and middle up full is just for Neil Young . Generally you don't want them that high - start with them all a bit above halfway and adjust from there. Presence usually needs to be quite low.

Thanks for your suggestion. In addition to using different EQ settings before, I must have had the presence too high. I'll try different settings this evening.

@ICBM I have tried your suggestion of setting the drive channel up first. At home volume levels it does now sound overdriven, and not nasally as it did before. This is more promising for when I try it at a band rehearsal. One thing I have noticed is that switching from the drive channel, the clean sounds have increased treble. I've set the presence to zero. Is this what you would expect?

CarpeDiem

thecolourbox said:

I loved the hot rod deluxe drive channel because it didn't sound Marshally in the slightest, fitted my style of playing perfectly and of it was not so physically big in comparison to the space I have available if have one over my Princeton any day of the week, that goes for both the clean and drive channels. But when I play with overdrive it's for garage style indie rock not the kinds of bands you were going for. For that of you don't want a new amp I'd just get a couple of amp style distortion pedals or a Mesa V Twin to use into the fx loop return

Thanks for your comments. I've finally managed to get a decent overdrive sound from the amp, and I agree with you that it's distinct from a Marshall. I've been using a Friedman BE-OD into the front end of the clean channel, but I'll try it through the effects loop as I think I probably need to experiment more than I do with my kit.

ICBM

CarpeDiem said:
@ICBM I have tried your suggestion of setting the drive channel up first. At home volume levels it does now sound overdriven, and not nasally as it did before. This is more promising for when I try it at a band rehearsal. One thing I have noticed is that switching from the drive channel, the clean sounds have increased treble. I've set the presence to zero. Is this what you would expect?

Yes. If it's too much - usually if you have a very bright guitar - turn the bright switch off on the clean channel.

CarpeDiem said:

I've been using a Friedman BE-OD into the front end of the clean channel, but I'll try it through the effects loop as I think I probably need to experiment more than I do with my kit.

Don't do that - or at least not if you mean actually running it fully in the FX loop, between the Preamp Out and the Power Amp In. Using an overdrive/distortion in the loop can cause the amp to feed back on itself internally and blow the send/return chip.

If you mean simply connecting the pedal to the Power Amp In - with the guitar going directly to the pedal, not using the amp's preamp at all - that's fine.

CarpeDiem

ICBM said:

CarpeDiem said:
@ICBM I have tried your suggestion of setting the drive channel up first. At home volume levels it does now sound overdriven, and not nasally as it did before. This is more promising for when I try it at a band rehearsal. One thing I have noticed is that switching from the drive channel, the clean sounds have increased treble. I've set the presence to zero. Is this what you would expect?

Yes. If it's too much - usually if you have a very bright guitar - turn the bright switch off on the clean channel.

CarpeDiem said:

I've been using a Friedman BE-OD into the front end of the clean channel, but I'll try it through the effects loop as I think I probably need to experiment more than I do with my kit.

Don't do that - or at least not if you mean actually running it fully in the FX loop, between the Preamp Out and the Power Amp In. Using an overdrive/distortion in the loop can cause the amp to feed back on itself internally and blow the send/return chip.

If you mean simply connecting the pedal to the Power Amp In - with the guitar going directly to the pedal, not using the amp's preamp at all - that's fine.

Thanks for the suggestion on the bright switch. I'm glad you mentioned that as I was going to put the overdrive pedal direct into the effects loop. (There seems to be a trend for doing this at the moment.)

ICBM

CarpeDiem said:

I'm glad you mentioned that as I was going to put the overdrive pedal direct into the effects loop. (There seems to be a trend for doing this at the moment.)

Guitar > pedal > FX return/power amp input is fine. It's guitar > amp input > FX send > pedal > FX return that isn't. What happens is that the pedal can have enough gain to make the signal at the FX return leak back to the FX send, either via the power supply, or in this case within the same chip since a dual IC is used for both send and return, and sets up a feedback loop. The result is that the amp will self-oscillate, often ultrasonically, and if you're unlucky it will fry something. The Hotrod is one of the amps where this definitely is an issue, I've seen several damaged like this.

Unless you know for sure that it's safe with your particular amp, the simple rule is to never run any kind of distortion (pedal or external preamp, including something like a Pod) in the FX loop, on any amp.