5 way SuperSwitch Fragility (?)

gitapik

I've got a 2010 MusicMan Silhouette Special. Very into this guitar.

The wiring is different than most in order to allow the silent circuit to work. It requires a 5 way superswitch in order to activate:

1) bridge
2) 1/2 bridge and middle
3) 1/2 bridge and neck
4) middle and neck
5) neck

I had a tech swap out the pickups it came with. The original owner had disabled the silent circuit and was using a standard 5 way with noiseless pickups.

I'm used to a Strat standard 5 way and have gotten a system of flicking the switch down pretty well. When I first brought the Silo home from the shop I was flicking from the 5 to the 2 position and hit a dead spot between the 3 and 2 position instead. No sound. I called the tech and he said that superswitches are more fragile than standards. Offered to either repair or replace the new one (Stu-Mac). At cost.

I tried to modify my technique and had some success. I didn't hit it often...but when I did, it sucked.

Called Ernie Ball/MusicMan. They said they'd never heard of that problem and it might be because I'm using an aftermarket switch. So I ordered and received one of theirs. I know the first tech I went to is good, but tried another this time.

He installed the new switch and said the old switch had been correctly wired but was defective. Showed me where there was a "loose" area. 

I took it home and, two days later: same problem.

Sent an email, asking about the fragility issue, saying that I've had the same 5 way standard switch in my Strat for a decade with no issues. He said it's possible that I might be hitting it too hard (didn't weigh in on the fragility issue) but it also might be another defective switch. 

Long story short: Anybody have a similar experience with a superswitch? Are they more fragile than a standard? If so, I'm seriously considering wiring the guitar standard and living with the hum.

Funkfingers

I tried an AXIS Super Sport last month. It was the feel of the five-way selector switch that put me off buying the guitar. 

Winny_Pooh

I have one and have had no issues whilst replacing pickups on two occasions. 
Most likely one of the contacts is not touching a pin, I would open it up and see if you can bend the offending pin back or use another part of the switch to double up the connection (4 sets of terminals)

Explain what you mean when you say dead spot?

gitapik

I'm going to give it one more shot. This tech has offered to check it out for nothing. Really hope it can be fixed because the silent circuit is better than any other noiseless pickups I've heard or tried. Because of the wiring, the only pickup that needs to be silenced is the neck, and that has an internal trimpot that can adjust how much of the hum you're rolling off. 

gitapik

Winny_Pooh said:

I have one and have had no issues whilst replacing pickups on two occasions. 
Most likely one of the contacts is not touching a pin, I would open it up and see if you can bend the offending pin back or use another part of the switch to double up the connection (4 sets of terminals)

Explain what you mean when you say dead spot?

There's a spot between the 3 and 4 position where there's no sound. If I try to find it, it's there. I usually don't hit it when I'm flicking from position to position, but sometimes it just lands there.

It's not there, even if I try to position for it, on my Strat's standard 5 position.

normula1

In my experience they don't seem to be as robust as a well made traditional 5 way. There are alternates such as the EYB ones http://www.eyb-guitars.de/produkte/megaswitch.html

gitapik

normula1 said:

In my experience they don't seem to be as robust as a well made traditional 5 way. There are alternates such as the EYB ones http://www.eyb-guitars.de/produkte/megaswitch.html

Is that similar to this one:

https://www.schaller-electronic.com/hp534785/Schaller-Megaswitches.htm

If so, I'm pretty sure that one of my techs told me it won't engage the silent circuit for some reason. Not sure. I'll send your link to him, now. Thanks.

Sassafras

Got to admire the trouble Music Man go to with their after-sales service. Below and behind the call of duty. 

normula1

I believe that they are different to the Schallwr ones although they di look very similar. He does multiple variants with up to the equivalent of eight "wafers". He did tell me that they need his own knobs but IIRC USA size ones should fit.

gitapik

Sassafras said:

Got to admire the trouble Music Man go to with their after-sales service. Below and behind the call of duty. 

No shit. I have a hard time believing this is the first they've heard of the problem.

Whatever. I love the weight and feel of the guitar so it's a keeper, regardless. I just sent that link normula1 provided to my tech. See if that'll do the trick. We'll see.

ICBM

It's not faulty or lower quality - it's because these switches are break-before-make, ie there is a small gap where the rotor is not contacting either position. The standard 5-way is a make-before-break - in fact, it's not even a 5-way, it's a 3-way make-before-break with two extra mechanical notches in the in-between positions, so there are no gaps.

gitapik

ICBM said:

It's not faulty or lower quality - it's because these switches are break-before-make, ie there is a small gap where the rotor is not contacting either position. The standard 5-way is a make-before-break - in fact, it's not even a 5-way, it's a 3-way make-before-break with two extra mechanical notches in the in-between positions, so there are no gaps.

(I like your signature quote, btw)

Yeah...that's what I had a feeling about. It's just the nature of the beast. 

So it'll be a question of whether I want to alter my technique on this particular guitar (use less of the fast toggle changes and be more deliberate) in order to avoid the inevitable or just get a different 5 way. 

Do you know, ICBM, if this alternative is any better than a superswitch?

https://www.schaller-electronic.com/hp534785/Schaller-Megaswitches.htm

Thanks for the info.

ICBM

gitapik said:

Do you know, ICBM, if this alternative is any better than a superswitch?

https://www.schaller-electronic.com/hp534785/Schaller-Megaswitches.htm

No - those *are* slightly unreliable in my experience, at least compared to the CRL-type Superswitch.

Sporky

I've got Superswitches in a few guitars and haven't had any issues; I don't gig but some of them have been there for over a decade of casual playing without issue.

Funkfingers

+1

PCB lever switches are always vulnerable to strain damage from sideways movement of the toggle. 

Leo Fender first adopted the CRL switch primarily because - being military surplus - it was available cheaply and in bulk. Originally intended for field radios, these switches could fairly be described as combat tested.

In my opinion, anything that can survive a battlefield has half a chance of withstanding the abuse that it will receive from a Rock guitarist. 

gitapik

Sporky said:

I've got Superswitches in a few guitars and haven't had any issues; I don't gig but some of them have been there for over a decade of casual playing without issue.

Are you somewhat deliberate when switching from position to position? I give it a little whack with my ring finger if it's a quick change that's needed. 1 to 5 or the opposite requires more whack than the others. 

Sporky

I suppose I am quite precise with pickup switches, yes.

gitapik

Sporky said:

I suppose I am quite precise with pickup switches, yes.

Thanks. I'm wondering. If it's my particular technique that's a factor or not. 

Roland

ICBM said:

... The standard 5-way is a make-before-break - in fact, it's not even a 5-way, it's a 3-way make-before-break with two extra mechanical notches in the in-between positions, so there are no gaps.

On a Les Paul you can change pickups to emphasise a note. Gary Moore was good at this. It works on a Les Paul, but I've never managed to make it work on a lever switch. Instead I've learned to mute the strings before moving the lever. 

normula1

I tend to flick the lever with my little finger to achieve to do the emphasis thing. In fact the one thing I hate about PRS lever switches is that due to its location I have to reach over the vibrato arm to get to the switch so I can't do the qick flick.

gitapik

I agree about the PRS. Great guitars but I'm not a fan of that lever location, either.

Interesting development, here: I'm bringing the guitar in tomorrow, but decided to check to make sure I'm not tripping and, waddya know: there's now a very faint sound coming out in that "dead spot". Sounds like a cheap imitation of that cloudy jazz tone that Kenny Burrell is well known for. But, compared to the volume at the regular 5 spots, it's miniscule. AKA: it ain't useable!

I love my LP and the ability to set separate volumes for the pickups is a great feature. Customkits, a member here, chimed in on a post of mine, showing an S style build he'd recently done with that feature. Really nice ax.