Mystery string breaking problem - any ideas?

Voxman

I've posted on this before, but it's happened again! This is now the 4th top E-string break on my Yamaha 611VFM over the last 5-6 weeks.  The original string was 010, subsequent strings are 009's. Each time the string has broken about half an inch from the tuner post.  So it's not breaking at the bridge, nor is it breaking where the string is 'gripped' by the Grover locking tuners, and no string has broken when the guitar is being played.  Each time, the string has mysteriously snapped whilst the 611 has been sitting safely protected in a hard-shell Hiscox case (previously used for years to protect my '69 Strat).  The case is padded (you're all familiar with the quality of Hiscox cases), it fits perfectly, & there is nothing in the case that could possibly account for this.  All strings were bona-fide D'Addario's serial numbers verified by me and George at D'Addario UK (who very kindly sent me a pack of 5 'E's).  

4 broken Top E strings in a month is NOT a coincidence. My gut tells me its the locking Grovers but common sense says it can't be because the break is half an inch from the post - not where the string is 'locked' - in fact, I have to unlock it to get the piece out.  I can't believe the strings are faulty - I've restrung several other guitars from the same D'Addario10-set box and these have (as always) been perfect.

I've been playing over 45 years and never had this trouble with any other guitar.  I'm totally baffled - has anyone ever had a similar problem or have any ideas as to what's causing these breakages?   

ICBM

Does the case lining touch the string there?

Voxman

ICBM said:

Does the case lining touch the string there?

Not the case lining but there is a very soft pad on the lid that rests very gently on the neck around that area to stop the guitar moving in transit. It's glued on but I could try removing it - however, I'm struggling to see how that could be causing the problem, and it was never a problem with my Strat.  

Funkfingers

What string guides does the guitar have on its headstock? 

guitars4you

sorry I can't suggest anything - Marie Celeste moment with no explanation why - I agree I can't see why the case should be the problem, but only suggest that can you leave it on a stand for a week or so and see if it makes any difference - Clutching at straws but just trying to eliminate the case - Normally strings break at a contact point , so sorry I'm no help

digitalkettle

Obviously, someone sneaking in to send you a message with a pair of snips

ICBM

Voxman said:

ICBM said:

Does the case lining touch the string there?

Not the case lining but there is a very soft pad on the lid that rests very gently on the neck around that area to stop the guitar moving in transit. It's glued on but I could try removing it - however, I'm struggling to see how that could be causing the problem, and it was never a problem with my Strat.  

Try covering it with a cloth. It's possible something has got into the pad which is causing a spot of corrosion to form on the string just there.

I've come across this a few times, although usually with much older and rougher cases than I assume yours is...

Sassafras

Possibly try smoothing the string tree with a bit of fine W&D. I've had this on a Strat where there was a very rough surface on the underside of the top E string tree.

Funkfingers

guitars4you said:

I can't see why the case should be the problem. Clutching at straws but just trying to eliminate the case - Normally strings break at a contact point.

In which exact model of Hiscox case is the Yamaha is stored? How tightly does the guitar fit into the case lengthways? Does the tip of the headstock press against the lining?

Voxman

Funkfingers said:

guitars4you said:

I can't see why the case should be the problem. Clutching at straws but just trying to eliminate the case - Normally strings break at a contact point.

In which exact model of Hiscox case is the Yamaha is stored? How tightly does the guitar fit into the case lengthways? Does the tip of the headstock press against the lining?

Here's a pic of the 611 in the Hiscox case - headstock is no-where near the case lining. 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/voxman5/ADVENT-PC/IMG_20170517_143439368_zpspy9ib587.jpg

mrkb

Have you left it out if the case to prove the string isn't snapping due to other reasons? Worth trying for a week so you aren't chasing the wrong cause.

Voxman

I just realised that I hadn't put the strings through the string retainers (original 010 was) - that couldn't account for it could it? 

Cabicular

Looking at that pic
is it possible that when you put the guitar in the tuner turns?
Put it in the case as you normally would then take it out 
is the top e sharp?

(edited as I thought it was a double locking system) 

Sassafras

Voxman said:

I just realised that I hadn't put the strings through the string retainers (original 010 was) - that couldn't account for it could it? 

I reckon it could easily account for it.

Voxman

Sassafras said:

Voxman said:

I just realised that I hadn't put the strings through the string retainers (original 010 was) - that couldn't account for it could it? 

I reckon it could easily account for it.

Why?

Voxman

Cabicular said:

Looking at that pic
is it possible that when you put the guitar in the tuner turns?
Put it in the case as you normally would then take it out 
is the top e sharp?

(edited as I thought it was a double locking system) 

No and No

Voxman

mrkb said:

Have you left it out if the case to prove the string isn't snapping due to other reasons? Worth trying for a week so you aren't chasing the wrong cause.

I have a very small den so don't really have room to leave it on a stand & there would be a risk it could get damaged. 

ICBM

If it's breaking at exactly the same place every time that is not at a contact point, it's not an overall increase in tension or anything to do with the string trees if they're not at that point - it's something specific to *that* place on the string.

Or are you mistaking the half inch away from the post where the break is to the length that *was* on the post when the string was under tension? In which case it's breaking at the post. Hopefully I'm not insulting your intelligence .

It's not a coincidence though, whatever it is. Two could be - although still unlikely - but not four.

crunchman

Do you leave the trem arm in when you put it in the case?  If you do, is there any chance that there is pressure on the trem arm pulling the strings really sharp and putting extra tension on them?

Voxman

ICBM said:

If it's breaking at exactly the same place every time that is not at a contact point, it's not an overall increase in tension or anything to do with the string trees if they're not at that point - it's something specific to *that* place on the string.

Or are you mistaking the half inch away from the post where the break is to the length that *was* on the post when the string was under tension? In which case it's breaking at the post. Hopefully I'm not insulting your intelligence .

It's not a coincidence though, whatever it is. Two could be - although still unlikely - but not four.

The locking Grovers are different to any other tuner I have on any other guitar. These tuners have a 'cap' that turns & locks the string when you turn the tuner, so yes it's possible that where there's a half a wind on the post it is indeed catching/rubbing on a sharp 'lip' or something. In fact, the more I think about this the more I think it's the only logical explanation. What can I do to check & remedy the problem?

These are the same tuner type:

ICBM

Swap the E and B tuners - if the breakage moves to the B string you'll know for sure. Or if you can't be bothered and just want to fix it, swap it for say the D tuner (not sure if they have staggered heights on your guitar) - that kind of sharp edge won't usually break a wound string.