Cracked headstock - glueing advice

Gagaryn

I've agreed to fix a knackered guitar for a friends son - think he'd been doing Townshend impressions - the headtock has a crack running across the machine head line. I'm going to clamp and glue but would appreciate advice on what to use; I'm in too minds whether to use CA or Titebond. I'm leaning toward a low viscosity CA injected in with a syringe but would appreciate advice. Pics of the damage - 

LooseMoose

I'd go Titebond or Gorilla Wood Glue (NOT the normal Gorilla Glue)

octatonic

I would go with Titebond Original and nothing else.

Gagaryn

OK, will do

FelineGuitars

Split along the tuner screw line.
Titebond for the repair

ICBM

I would soak as much Titebond in as possible by putting the screws back in to force the cracks open while you add the glue, then take them out and clamp it. Maybe even put them in and out a few times to 'work' the glue into the cracks, if you're quick.

For belt and braces, you might also want to splint it by drilling through from the edge and fitting dowels, although if the cracks are clean it probably isn't necessary.

impmann

Titebond every time for a repair like that. Another good investment would be a glue syringe to pump that glue into the very centre of the join. You can clean them out afterwards with water (if you use proper 'red top' Titebond) and they are so useful for other repairs. Such as:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-20ml-Syringes-with-5x-Long-Blunt-Needles-16G-E-Liquids-Ink-Glue-Flux-etc-/292157518451

WezV

Always titebond original.   CA glue is great for many cosmetic repairs and mixed material joins, but not structural ones, especially if its a wood to wood join.  You can't pull it apart, but it has very little chance against  shearing or impact forces

Gagaryn

impmann said:

Titebond every time for a repair like that. Another good investment would be a glue syringe to pump that glue into the very centre of the join. You can clean them out afterwards with water (if you use proper 'red top' Titebond) and they are so useful for other repairs. Such as:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-20ml-Syringes-with-5x-Long-Blunt-Needles-16G-E-Liquids-Ink-Glue-Flux-etc-/292157518451

Thanks all, will use Titebond, already got loads of syringes and blunt needles in the house, I had suspicions that there might be problems with CA hence my enquiry. I was hoping it would be suitable though as I have loads but my Titebond is old and has thickened so no use for this. More is ordered! Does heating it a bit make it less viscose and easier to inject?

impmann

I don't think heating does - but you could try a teeeny tiny bit of water, as its a water based glue...

WezV

Do not use titebond if it's over a year or two old.  You can normally check the batch codes or label it when you buy and make sure not to use it for more than a year.


If it doesn't look right, throw it out

thermionic

A trick in one of Dan Erlewine's books is to soak the inside of a crack wth water before applying the glue, it apparently helps the glue penetrate the wood.

Gagaryn

thermionic said:

A trick in one of Dan Erlewine's books is to soak the inside of a crack wth water before applying the glue, it apparently helps the glue penetrate the wood.

That makes sense, I'll give that a go. :-)

usedtobe

Is that a Johnson guitar..?

Gagaryn

usedtobe said:

Is that a Johnson guitar..?

Ashton? Some far east own brand thing but it plays ok and pickups sound fine.

usedtobe

https://goo.gl/images/xzuvh5

octatonic

WezV said:

Do not use titebond if it's over a year or two old.  You can normally check the batch codes or label it when you buy and make sure not to use it for more than a year.


If it doesn't look right, throw it out

and that is only if it has been stored airtight.

DartmoorHedgehog

At the risk of going slightly off-topic, what properties does old Titebond lose? My bottle of it is a year old, and the one before that probably lasted me two years.  Still looks normal and seems to stick wood together just as well as ever.  I keep it in the house so it's never out in freezing conditions, always with the top closed, and it seems to last fine.  Is it a case of "if it looks normal it's OK" or is there something else to watch out for?

WezV

Its not like it suddenly goes bad, but it is definitely better if its fresher.

TBH its just a case of being carfeful.  It might function fine for general woodworking when its old, but you really want it performing its best for luthiery.   For me its not worth the risk if its over 2 years old

I have had failed joins from old titebond, but that had spent a few months in a garage over winter when i was moving house.. so it may have been the cold as much as the age.  It looks right in the bottle, but dried chalky with no strength

Titebond themselves are a bit vague.

This PDF reference guide suggests 24 months shelf life for titebond original

http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/LiteraturePDFs/ff876_ShelfLife.sflb.ashx

but the FAQ says if it will still function beyond that

What does the term "shelf life" mean in regard to Titebond Wood Glues?

"Shelf life" is a conservative estimate of the minimum time period that we would expect a given product to remain usable, when stored as directed. This concept might also be called "useable service life" or "storage life," and it necessarily refers to both the physical handling properties and the ability of the product to perform properly. When used in reference to wood glues, reaching the stated shelf life does not mean that a product will "expire" or become unusable. Instead, we view the stated shelf life of most of our glues merely as a guideline to avoid potential aging concerns. In reality, as long as products like Titebond Original, Titebond II and Titebond III remain fluid, without a drastic change in appearance, they will continue to perform as intended.

DartmoorHedgehog

Ah, OK- doesn't sound like mine's dodgy then.  It certainly is still as runny an normal and joints are strong (I've sawed, filed and sanded pretty extensively across joints in my current project).  I'll keep an eye on it in future though, still nearly half a bottle left that is unlikely to get used for another year at the rate I use it.  Perhaps I'll buy a small bottle next time.

Gagaryn

We have success! I used fresh Titebond so was nice and runny and easy to inject. Clamped without finesse in a 40 year old B&D Workbench (fooked my back moving it!) and left for a few days before stringing up - all cracks are completely closed and no flex when under tension. Needs a wee bit of tidying - I used Titebond to roughly seal off a chunk that has been chipped off the end of the headstock which will be cleaned up a bit.

Here is what we were dealing with - Forgot to take photos before putting the hardware back and stringing up but here is how it ended up - 

Thanks all for the advice.