Have I fallen foul of being a tight arse?

rico

Right so after much deliberation I think i'm in need of a different cab for my Ceriatone 2204 HW head. The cab I currently have is a Marshall 2x12 (that I got cheap on eBay) that came with some poxy speakers and I replaced them with some Marshall branded Vintage 30s (also that I got cheap on eBay). It sounds decent when it's fairly cranked up however in a band and gig situation it becomes a bit lost - a bit muddy and shrill.

I'm using a Tele and have the 2204 set as below (master usually higher but I wasn't wearing earplugs):



Should I reassess my EQ settings or do you think its a particular characteristic of a chipboard cab and middy speakers?

The middle and treble are low because it's very bright otherwise (again, a characteristic of the cab/speakers maybe?)

Is a new cab with better speakers the way to go?

ICBM

The Marshall V30s are quite bright, but I think the problem is the EQ - you've basically got the whole tone stack turned nearly off, which will really strangle the tone - and you've got the Presence up very high, which will make it shrill at higher volume.

First turn the bass to 10. Then adjust the rest of the EQ so it sounds right. Always works for me when I use an old Marshall…

(My usual settings would probably be Middle 6, Treble 6, Presence 4.)

rico

Thanks @ICBM ;I'm not really one for fiddling but I will certainly try that and it has the added bonus of being free!

rico

Also I've just realised that this one goes to 11! Haha!

ICBM

Ha - so it does . But the other numbers are the same, luckily!

Although on second thoughts, you're using a Tele… maybe put the Treble on about 4 and the Presence on 2 .

Actually, just dial it by ear - and remember that the Presence becomes more effective the higher the volume is - it's essentially a power stage high-frequency dynamics control, not a tone control as such.

I also assume the amp has a bright cap on the preamp volume, if it's a direct 2204 copy - it might be worth removing it, if you're not running it with the preamp up full.

Plectrum

Personally I'd push up the mids and treble and turn down the presence.

rico

The reason the mids and treble is so low is because it's very bright unless the preamp is cranked so I imagine the bright cap is in situ. 

Would a schematic help?

BoopDeWoop

Are you seriously asking strangers on the Internet on what amp settings you need? Surely you just twiddle until it sounds good?

ICBM

rico said:

The reason the mids and treble is so low is because it's very bright unless the preamp is cranked so I imagine the bright cap is in situ. 

Would a schematic help?

I could probably draw one from memory .

One reason it's so bright is because the bass is turned down. Start with it at 10 (or 11, in your case ). I've never come across one old Lead model Marshall which sounds too bassy like that.

You could also try turning the preamp up full and back the guitar off, that will soften it a lot.

rico

@BoopDeWoop it was more a question about inherent brightness of the particular cab and speaker combination rather than the eq settings but it seems like that might be a way forward. 

rico

@ICBM thanks - I'll try that next practice session. 

Would using the low input allow me to crank it further and reduce the brightness? I notice it doesn't have a cap. 

Lestratcaster

Turn your mids up!

ICBM

rico said:

@BoopDeWoop it was more a question about inherent brightness of the particular cab and speaker combination rather than the eq settings but it seems like that might be a way forward. 

The Marshall V30s are definitely brighter than standard ones, but they're still not overly shrill compared to a lot of other speakers - they're actually more upper-middy than truly trebly.

You need that upper mid to give the sound its proper bite - a Marshall isn't meant to be a smooth amp.

rico said:

Would using the low input allow me to crank it further and reduce the brightness? I notice it doesn't have a cap. 

It does - the cap is on the preamp control so it works on both inputs. The Low input is a very different thing though - much cleaner because it misses out the first gain stage. Personally I find it a bit thin - I prefer the High almost exclusively and if I want a cleaner sound I turn the preamp down or the guitar (or both). I only really use the Low if I'm getting all the distortion from pedals.

rico

I wish I'd asked this before he rehearsal - got to wait a week to play about with it now!

TTBZ

If those settings don't work you could try G12H30 or Creamback speakers.

koss59

From memory of my old 800 I used to run the presence all the way off. Try that then you can crank the other controls.

rico

@TTBZ thanks for that - in the same cab or would it benefit from a nice solid wood effort from the likes of Zilla?

koss59

I also don't remember my original one sounding any good until the master was at 6 or above so maybe an attenuator?

guitarfishbay

Am I right in thinking the Satriani JVM has some 800 DNA? Because I know he runs his BMT below half.



It it does seem strange to run treble off but presence high to me though... that's the thing I'd look at again anyway.

ICBM

koss59 said:

I also don't remember my original one sounding any good until the master was at 6 or above so maybe an attenuator?

They seem to vary. Some need to be cranked a bit - although I've never found any that need to be up that high, 2 or 3 is plenty - but some sound pretty good right down to as low as the master will go before it cuts off. Not sure why...

The change at about 6 on the master - if the preamp is already overdriven - is when the power stage starts to overdrive. It does sound great, certainly - although it can sometimes get a bit too smooth and compressed, which I don't really like as much.

The best one I've ever played was a '76 2203... great tone anywhere on the master. Although I don't think I ever tried it all the way up.

Sassafras

I normally start with the TMB all on full and go from there.
You've got the presence almost on full, that's never a good idea IME.