Kemper & Atomic Amplifire vs. 20 Year-Old Line 6 Pod - Has Amp Modelling Evolved?

Fretwired

tone1 said:

I wasn't aware that Ricky Tomlinson played guitar

Oi .. that's Bill Nelson .. a northern legend. Be Bop Deluxe were a great band ...

NelsonP

Totally agree with boromedic and monoquixote. The amplifire was not well represented here and downloading presets from 'the experts' is a shortcut to great tone. I also don't like the amp factory ones, and prefer the singtall ones. Haven't tried mBritt.

@boromedic - would you be prepared to share any of your presets?

I have a pod xt, an amplifire and a mesa .50 cal head with a marshall 4 x 12. 

I don't know whether it's how Andertons dialled the tones or recorded it or what, but what I heard on my tv was nothing like my real life experiences of these modellers.

I thought the pod xt was startlingly good when I bought it 10 years ago and it still holds up today. But it has a harshness and shrillness that the amplifire doesn't. It was that which ultimately caused me to move on.

To my ears the tone of the amplifire was enough of a step up for me to replace the pod. I didn't try helix or kemper as they were too pricey so I can't really comment on them.

The other modellers I tried in between - pod hd, firehawk and boss gt100 weren't a big enough jump in quality for me.

Having said that, none of them are better sounding than a cranked tube amp. More convenient yes, and more versatile but not better sounding.

Fiftyshadesofjay

I'm sorry but a mic'd up FRFR cab? Couldn't have picked a worse way to demonstrate these units.

Does chappers mic up his foldback at gigs and pump it through the PA to get his unique tone? 

Would have been so much better giving us the direct signal as that's what you'd actually hear yourself if you had the unit. 

John_A

The difference is as much to do with feel as sound. At last nights rehearsal I used a zoom G3n instead of my Helix.  I set it al up at home and was really pleased with the way it sounded. Playing with the band though it felt really flat compared to the Helix, the way it responded to hard and soft playing was a long way from the Helix, the balls were missing even though it was loud, it was missing oomph.  

sweepy

That's where I think Modelling has definitely improved, touch response, dynamics and the ability to drive the unit from the volume control have all improved measurably 

BGG

I used to use a POD for recording many many years ago, it was ok nothing special. Then I got a Vox Tonelab, it blew it out of the water tone wise, very underrated IMO.

NelsonP

The other thing to point out is that PODs don't have an aux in. Whereas nearly all modern modellers do.

Whilst a very simple thing it makes a big difference as it allows you to play along to backing tracks and mix it into your headphones for when you want to play at home silently.

Of course that is a problem which also can be solved using an audio interface.....

Boromedic

NelsonP said:

Totally agree with boromedic and monoquixote. The amplifire was not well represented here and downloading presets from 'the experts' is a shortcut to great tone. I also don't like the amp factory ones, and prefer the singtall ones. Haven't tried mBritt.

@boromedic - would you be prepared to share any of your presets?

Potentially, however I used quite a bit of Michael Britts groundwork when setting them, which obviously is his work not to mention the OH IR's within the presets. I'm not sure on the ethics of sharing that kind of thing if you get me, (unless you already have them of course?? ). I'll have to go back over them when I can and find the ones that aren't mostly still M Britts in basis and forward them on to you when I can. I'm away at the moment and don't have access to the Amplifire, I will get something to you soonish though.

I only use something like 10 presets. At one point I went mad trying to create perfect tone matches for songs but decided that was a massive timewaste. Made me laugh when I read a post on here from monquixote I think, about people playing covers gigs trying to set up their modeller and their sound veering all over the place using a million patches as that was me at one point. (Or at least attempting to do that anyway!)

On a side note, I also got some good tones from Chris Brightwells presets on the AA Facebook page, the VH preset in particular is pretty cool as a wide generalisation of Eddies tone.

bloodandtears

It has evolved, but it still won't convince some people...

I swear by the POD v2 tech sounding better than many of its succeeding models... and the simplicity is rarely bettered.

DISCLAIMER: I use HD500X currently and still have POD v2 tech, my untrained ears struggle to warrant the cost of a Helix.

John_A

bloodandtears said:

It has evolved, but it still won't convince some people...

I swear by the POD v2 tech sounding better than many of its succeeding models... and the simplicity is rarely bettered.

DISCLAIMER: I use HD500X currently and still have POD v2 tech, my untrained ears struggle to warrant the cost of a Helix.

Do you gig?  At home, I agree, there are a lot of cheaper options that sound really good.  The difference in a live band setting is where you'll really notice.  Borrow one and give it a try

Fretwired

John_A said:

Do you gig?  At home, I agree, there are a lot of cheaper options that sound really good.  The difference in a live band setting is where you'll really notice.  Borrow one and give it a try

For me that's the biggest change. The POD 2 sounds good in a home studio environment, especially when you add guitar into a mix and add compression and studio fx. It was always live where such units were found wanting .. the Flextone II head and cab didn't sound too bad if you wanted a basic rock tone.

These days you can see Axe-FX units in the racks of well-known guitarists. Robert Fripp has two in his King Crimson rig. I'm sure the Helix and Axe-FX sound great  - I can't be arsed with all the tweaking and fiddling and having to learn new things. I'm back to an amp and pedals .. :-)

Fretwired

Now Andertons have done an Atomic Amplifire before ... @Boromedic ; .. sounds pretty good.

bloodandtears

John_A said:

bloodandtears said:

It has evolved, but it still won't convince some people...

I swear by the POD v2 tech sounding better than many of its succeeding models... and the simplicity is rarely bettered.

DISCLAIMER: I use HD500X currently and still have POD v2 tech, my untrained ears struggle to warrant the cost of a Helix.

Do you gig?  At home, I agree, there are a lot of cheaper options that sound really good.  The difference in a live band setting is where you'll really notice.  Borrow one and give it a try

Yes I do...  No one has ever said to me that it sounds shite..

please educate me.. critique this..

John_A

bloodandtears said:

 

Yes I do...  No one has ever said to me that it sounds shite..

please educate me.. critique this..

I'm sure you don't sound shite   Nice pic by the way!  Having used real amps as well as lots of earlier incarnations of modellers in my opinion the Helix (and I'm sure it applies to others) just feels loads better, it seems a lot more dynamic, i.e. when you go from playing softly to loud it reacts differently.  It's hard to explain, I don't just mean gain levels, it's the whole impression of moving air.  Just saying even if you don't think the cost is worth it, give it a try and you might be surprised.  Absolutely not saying anything older or cheaper is shite, but IMO there is a noticeable positive improvement .

It's something the audience may not even notice, but as a player you do.

Fretwired

bloodandtears said:

John_A said:

bloodandtears said:

It has evolved, but it still won't convince some people...

I swear by the POD v2 tech sounding better than many of its succeeding models... and the simplicity is rarely bettered.

DISCLAIMER: I use HD500X currently and still have POD v2 tech, my untrained ears struggle to warrant the cost of a Helix.

Do you gig?  At home, I agree, there are a lot of cheaper options that sound really good.  The difference in a live band setting is where you'll really notice.  Borrow one and give it a try

Yes I do...  No one has ever said to me that it sounds shite..

please educate me.. critique this..

Cool .. the guitars sound good .. :-)

bloodandtears

@John_A ;   I daresay.. unfortunately I have never been in the valve amp circles, it eluded me throughout my years; so I am no doubt guilty of uneducated ears and I'll be the first to admit it. Always willing to learn though.. even after 20+ years, but it will need pointing out what to listen for.. I tried a Helix and I just heard modelling.. but personally I couldn't hear the difference in quality. perhaps an A/B test with someone with knowledge is what I'm lacking.


BTW... fixed the youtube link...

Boromedic

@Fretwired , yeah they did a number of Amplifire vids and Chappers did his own personal one and they all sounded great, that's why I was surprised they allowed this to appear in that format tbh. Chappers in particular was fawning all over it tbf, Brett Kingman does some good demos of it to. 

It does take some tweaking, but I'm sure the Axe and Kemper are similar and to some degree the Helix (I have no idea on any of them as I dont' own them), but it's not impossible to use. Especially with the software which makes it a lot easier. Unfortunately like all modellers it's pretty easy to make it sound shite too!!

John_A

@bloodandtears Guitar sounds great, and playing fantastic.  Don't think I have 'educated ears' either.  When you tried one was it at gig/rehearsal or just shop/home?  It's at a rehearsal or gig that I think you would appreciate the difference.  Or you could just stick with what you are using - sounds great!

bloodandtears

@John_A ; @Fretwired ;; thanks.. thats a Flextone II head...

It was at GuitarGuitar Glasgow... not an A/B test or anything just an in shop tinker for 20 minutes or so...

John_A

@bloodandtears Try and borrow one for a rehearsal and see what you think,  either that or just don't worry, the old Flextone sounds good to me